3D surface modeling of a giant redwood trunk

General discussions of measurement techniques and the results of testing of techniques and equipment.

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

Post Reply
User avatar
M.W.Taylor
Site Admin
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:45 am

3D surface modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by M.W.Taylor » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:40 pm

I have attached my latest effort to model Drury Tree's bark surface in X,Y,Z cartesian coordinates. This shape table has 2595 points and represents a partial map of the first 30 feet of trunk. You can rotate the overhead 2D and sideview 3D graph of the trunk by using the spinner arrows on the side or finer tuned slider arrows on the top.

As you can see from the overhead view, Drury Tree is enormous ! Looks to be 18ft diameter at 20ft off the ground. This is largest of any known redwood. When I get to 100ft off the ground and about 10,000 data points I will solve for volume using the theory of "homothetic slices" and update the forum with a more complete rotating graph of the massive lower bole of Drury Tree.

I think this tree will easily reach 35,000 cubic feet in trunk volume.
drury1.JPG
drury1.JPG (56.49 KiB) Viewed 4728 times
drury2.JPG
drury3.JPG
Forest Mapper Drury Tree- Mac.xls
rotating graph of Drury Tree
(2.35 MiB) Downloaded 147 times
Michael Taylor
WNTS VP
American Forests California Big Trees Coordinator
http://www.landmarktrees.net

.
Last edited by M.W.Taylor on Sun Jan 01, 2012 6:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
edfrank
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by edfrank » Thu Dec 29, 2011 9:57 pm

Michael,

I am really impressed with the cloud mapping you have presented in the last couple posts. This is an amazing tool. I added a couple of screen grabs to your post to show people a taste of the xls file before they download. (Also the graphics will look good in the next issue of the eNTS magazine).

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

User avatar
Larry Tucei
Posts: 2014
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 10:44 am

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by Larry Tucei » Fri Dec 30, 2011 9:21 am

Wow, That is an amazing graft you created. It must take many hours to do such a detailed mapping. Way cool! Larry

User avatar
dbhguru
Posts: 4467
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by dbhguru » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:06 pm

NTS,

Michael is the rising superstar of the NTS tree measuring corps. I am blown away by what he is developing in the way of new modeling tools. And be assured that Laser Technologies Inc. is dazzled and fully supportive. There is a lot of email traffic between Michael, me, and LTI. They are solidly behind what he is doing and will no doubt showcase some of his accomplishments, which are raising the ground-based tree measuring bar to its highest level ever.

Don and Ed,

I propose we do a special issue of the Bulletin of the Eastern Native Tree Society devoted to Michael and his ascendency to the top of the tree measuring hill. It is time that the whole world understands what he is accomplishing, often single-handedly. Obviously, we'd get stunning images and there would no doubt be some very interesting stories of discovery. If Michael is willing, what do you all think?

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

User avatar
edfrank
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by edfrank » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:03 pm

Bob,

I would be in favor of such a special issue. It really is up to Don as chief editor although I am sure he values the opinions of the associate editors. The other item that needs featured is all of the work being and that has been done using LiDAR. This would include the original guidelines by Paul Jost, through more comments on the implementation of LDAR from Steve Galehouse to examples of sites examined by LiDAR and later ground truthed, to the recent post on reflectivity and deciduousness.

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

User avatar
edfrank
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by edfrank » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:14 pm

This was posted on the NTS Facebook Page in response to a link to this thread on Redwood Modeling:
Jill Butler- Looks interesting for spacial modeling of our fat, squat ancient trees but could you do the hollow internal surfaces too at the same time?
I said likely not, but perhaps you could set up inside and map the interior surface of the hollow from top to bottom p the higher stuff from ground level shooting up, and the lower stuff from in the tree looking down, maybe part of the inner shell from outside through gaps in the exterior trunk?

Ed
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

User avatar
M.W.Taylor
Site Admin
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:45 am

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by M.W.Taylor » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:23 pm

Larry Tucei wrote:Wow, That is an amazing graft you created. It must take many hours to do such a detailed mapping. Way cool! Larry
Hi Larry,

I download my data from the Impulse200LR and MapStar encoder directly to a field PC through serial data cables. I average about 1,000 data points per hour. This map of the first 20 feet of Drury's trunk took me about 4 hours due to clutter around the tree. I had to move around a lot to find clear views and that took some time. To completely map the tree this way will probably take at least 10 more hours of field time. There is just so much surface area to map on this behemoth. This tree appears to be 16' diameter at 100' off the ground. It's a massive wall of wood.

Michael Taylor

User avatar
M.W.Taylor
Site Admin
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:45 am

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by M.W.Taylor » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:27 pm

edfrank wrote:This was posted on the NTS Facebook Page in response to a link to this thread on Redwood Modeling:
Jill Butler- Looks interesting for spacial modeling of our fat, squat ancient trees but could you do the hollow internal surfaces too at the same time?
I said likely not, but perhaps you could set up inside and map the interior surface of the hollow from top to bottom p the higher stuff from ground level shooting up, and the lower stuff from in the tree looking down, maybe part of the inner shell from outside through gaps in the exterior trunk?

Ed
Ed, Yes !

To really properly model this tree in its full glory you would need to climb and look down so you can fill in the features not visible from the ground. You can do that with this survey method just as long nas you can find a way to hang and fix a tripod to a big branch and have it visible from your last survey point on the ground for spacial referencing.

Michael

User avatar
M.W.Taylor
Site Admin
Posts: 530
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 11:45 am

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by M.W.Taylor » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:31 pm

Ed, Yes !

To really properly model this tree in its full glory you would need to climb and look down so you can fill in the features not visible from the ground. You can do that with this survey method just as long as you can find a way to hang and fix a tribrach mount to a big branch and have at least one station visible from your last survey point on the ground for spacial referencing.

You could also bring the survey into the tree's hollow interior and map that volume...then deduct from total. Theoretically possible.

Michael

User avatar
edfrank
Posts: 4217
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 5:46 pm

Re: 3D spacial modeling of a giant redwood trunk

Post by edfrank » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:44 pm

Michael,

I don't know to what extent, if any, this type of process has been used to map large cave chambers. It would be neat to go to someplace like Carlsbad Caverns Big Room and map the entire chamber and speleothems inside. The process for a chamber might be able to be automated by mounting the device on something like an automated telescope mount programmed to move the entire device in a grid pattern. Maybe the Big Room could be mapped during off hours, and a second large chamber like Lake of the Clouds during the tourist hours. We would need to get a research permit to do this, but that should not be a problem as the work could be done from existing paved trails and not involve clambering over anything. There are other caves that could be played with in the area, like Cottonwood in the Guads, that could be used to work out the bugs. If things worked out, maybe a trip to Lechuguilla as a prize.

Ed Frank


.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

Post Reply

Return to “Measurement and Dendromorphometry”