Black Creek Wilderness Trail

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Larry Tucei » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:41 am

Thanks guys- Doug- Good memory it's the same as in my yard but much taller. I measured the Alabama State Champion way back in 07 at D'Olive Plantation in Daphne but this is the largest and tallest in Ms. that I have seen. I'll go back to Daphne and get some numbers on the Champ, I cannot locate them.
andrew_jackson_oak.jpg
I need to go visit the big Andrew Jackson Live Oak anyway that also grows there a good excuse to go over and see that tree for the 10th time. LOL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_hemisphaerica Larry

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DougBidlack
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by DougBidlack » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:29 am

Larry,

wow! That Alabama champion is fat. I had no idea that Darlington oak could get that big, but I think the tall forest-grown tree you measured in MS is more attractive. Is Darlington oak fairly common there near the coast?

Doug

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Larry Tucei » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:02 am

Doug the tree in that photo is the Andrew Jackson Live Oak. I'll get a photo of the Alabama Darlington Oak champ when I go over. Darlington Oak is very common in the Coastal area from parts of east Texas to Maryland inland to 200 miles. Larry

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DougBidlack
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by DougBidlack » Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:12 pm

Larry,

well I guess that just goes to show you how little I know about Darlington Oak...not to mention live oak! I tried to look it up in 'Oaks of North America' by Miller and Lamb and I couldn't find it. I finally checked your link and some other internet sources and I realized I had done this before and just completely forgot about it. I guess Laurel Oak (Q. laurifolia) must have been split into Darlington Oak (Q. hemisphaerica) and Laurel Oak (Q. laurifolia) after 1985 when the 'Oaks of North America' was published. Making things even more confusing for me is that this book mentioned an oak closely related to Laurel Oak called Diamondleaf Oak (Q. obtusata) that had a similar habitat to Q. hemisphaerica and I assumed this must be a synonym for Q. hemisphaerica. When I checked Q. obtusata on the International Oaks website I found that this species is only native to Mexico! Luckily Miller and Lamb also indicated that the author for Q. obtusata was Ashe and this didn't match up with the author for that species on the IOS website, but it did match the author for Q. obtusa which they indicate is a synonym for Q. laurifolia and not Q. hemisphaerica. Yikes! I think it's time for me to try and find a new reference book for the southeastern oaks, not to mention other species as well. It seems well past time to update the 'Oaks of North America'.

Do you have a book that you like for the trees of your area or do you mostly use sites on the internet for your resource(s)?

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Larry Tucei » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:02 pm

Doug- One book is Guide to Southern Trees by Ellwood and J. George Harrar. Larry

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DougBidlack
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by DougBidlack » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:22 pm

Larry,

thanks for coming up with a good book for the region. Have you ever seen 'Native Trees of the Southeast: An Identification Guide' from 2007 by Brown, Kirkman and Leopold? It looks like it could be a good complement to the book by Ellwood and Harrar.

Doug

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Jess Riddle
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Jess Riddle » Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:40 pm

Larry,

I've seen anise in the field guides for years, but never seen them in the wild. That darlington oak is taller than any I've seen too. Sounds like a great area to explore with many interesting species.

Doug,

Darlington oak is common on sandy soils throughout the coastal plain. They are common on barrier islands, but also as far inland as the sandhills at the coastal plain-Piedmont interface.

Jess

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DougBidlack
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by DougBidlack » Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:29 pm

Jess, Larry,

how do you guys go about distinguishing between Darlington oak and laurel oak. I've read that the habitat is quite different between the two but do they ever occur in close proximity to one another? Are there any other oaks close enough to these two to be problematic? The only oaks I'm somewhat familiar with that seem kinda similar are willow oak and water oak.

Doug

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Larry Tucei
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Larry Tucei » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:55 am

Doug- The leaves are a little different more pointed on the Darlington. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_hemisphaerica Larry

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Jess Riddle
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Re: Black Creek Wilderness Trail

Post by Jess Riddle » Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:53 pm

Doug,

Native trees of the Southeast is my favorite field guide for the region. I also like "Woody plants of the southeastern United States: a winter guide" by Ron Lance. Weakley's Flora, available as a free pdf from the university of North Carolina herbarium, is my most used ID resource though.

I haven't spent enough time in their ranges to have seen laurel oak and darlington oak in close proximity, but I assume it could happen where a brown-water river (originating in the Piedmont or mountains) cuts through a sandy part of the Coastal Plain. Habitat has been enough to separate them for me, but laurel oak bark also seems somewhat darker. Water oak and myrtle oak may be the next most similar species, but leaf shape is clearly different.

Jess

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