Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

#21)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Will Blozan » Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:50 pm

Eucalyptus is still WAY taller................... Yes in NA.
User avatar
Will Blozan
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:13 pm
Location: North Carolina
Has Liked: 1558 times
Has Been Liked: 440 times
Print view this post

#22)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Bart Bouricius » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:15 pm

Will,

You are certainly correct as I neglected to state "native", I was originally responding to Patrick's response:

"The Fork Ridge Tulip Poplar was the tallest native angiosperm in North America at 191.9 feet tall.  It seems to me that Bart's Grandfather Oak has stolen the title!"

As the responses mount up sometimes I forget to be specific enough.

Bart
User avatar
Bart Bouricius
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:41 am
Location: Amherst, MA USA
Has Liked: 109 times
Has Been Liked: 298 times
Print view this post

#23)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Bart Bouricius » Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:17 pm

Bob,

Actually I am a little up in the air about getting in that last trip before returning to the US.  Will let you know if it happens.

Bart
User avatar
Bart Bouricius
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:41 am
Location: Amherst, MA USA
Has Liked: 109 times
Has Been Liked: 298 times
Print view this post

#24)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby greenent22 » Tue May 13, 2014 1:52 am

Wow, beyond belief!!!! And at such altitude! Usually the trees are not so tall (although I guess there is that one place in South America where some super tall trees are also at quite an altitude).
User avatar
greenent22
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:23 am
Location: NJ
Has Liked: 52 times
Has Been Liked: 28 times
Print view this post

#25)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Lucas » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:08 pm

We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir

For this message the author Lucas has received Likes :
Chris
User avatar
Lucas
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm
Has Liked: 0 times
Has Been Liked: 125 times
Print view this post

#26)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Lucas » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:48 pm

Bart Bouricius wrote:Costa Rica’s astounding huge “Grandfather Oak”:  The High Altitude Old Growth forests of Villa Mills

At 9,500 feet (2,900 m) in the Talamanca Mountains along the continental divide there are three large parks and several adjacent forest reserves that make up a corridor with the countries’ largest park, the International Amistad Park.  These parks are Quetzal National Park, Tapanti-Macizo Cerro DeLa Muerte National Park and Chirripo National Park.  

   In the Cerro De La Muerte park area is the town of Villa Mills with 200 residents, more or less. This is where Connie and I stayed on a 3 day tree hunting/birding trip.  After a first cold night in a cabin, we spent the next day driving the dirt roads in the area stopping at likely spots for birds and cataloging the ones we identified.  The second day, I contracted with Olman, a young man who works part time in the charcoal business (turning trees into charcoal for cooking).  Olman agreed to take me to a particularly huge tree that his family was familiar with.  
As we started out on the trail head at about 6:45 am, we were surrounded by towering oaks laden with orchids, ferns and other epiphytic plants including pendant moss, a true moss, which resembles the bromeliad Spanish Moss that commonly drapes the branches of Live Oaks in the Southeastern US.  As we walked we could hear a multitude of bird songs, particularly the ethereal flute like refrain of the Swainson’s Thrush, a bird that winters here and practices in the early spring for its North American debut.

   There are two species of oaks here, the “Encino” oak and the “Roble blanco” which is the larger of the two.  Both oaks are emergent species growing above the other trees including some magnolia trees, which are among the 94 odd tree species that are known to thrive in this high cloud forest environment.



Image

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3075771 ... %22O%22%7D

"Sorry, only 60,5 m. Attached the link to a file where they speak of this oak. They call it Quercus bumelioides, from what I have explained before, but it is Quercus copeyensis:"

According to this a white oak, Quercus copeyensis not Quercus bumelioides.

True?
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
User avatar
Lucas
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm
Has Liked: 0 times
Has Been Liked: 125 times
Print view this post

#27)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Lucas » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:19 pm

jasonbaker wrote:Really cool find! Is this the tallest angiosperm tree in North America now?


viewtopic.php?f=93&t=6185&p=39190#p39190
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
User avatar
Lucas
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm
Has Liked: 0 times
Has Been Liked: 125 times
Print view this post

#28)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Bart Bouricius » Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:55 am

Actually, it's not even close.  First the Eucalyptus trees in California are much taller, but when we are thinking of native species, there are at least 3 species in Panama and Costa Rica that have already been measured at well over this height including the Probado tree Pterygota excelsa at roughly 2011 feet, the Tunu tree Poulsenia species at 205 feet and, to be included in a Post that Will Blozan, Jess Riddle and myself are still preparing, a Cedro amargo tree Cedrella odorata at just over 225 feet.  There were actually several individuals of each of these tree species over 200 feet tall.  In addition, there are at least 5 species that have been measured to at least 60 meters, and probably 10 additional species that can also certainly exceed 200' in height, something I would have thought unlikely before I moved here and started measuring these trees.  

One caveat, you should be aware of, is that on our last visit to the Grandfather Oak, Will was only able to get 189', but it is a very difficult tree to measure, and it could have lost a tall branch as well.

A second piece of information, is that the huge number of ravines and coves in Costa Rica and Panama plus the lack of hurricanes here are ideal for producing remarkably tall trees.  Also, with about 3,000 species in these two countries compared to the 750 in the US, there is a lot of genetic potential as well.  Keep in mind that except for a few trees that Will measured, mine are from straight up Nikon 440 rangefinder shots.

For this message the author Bart Bouricius has received Likes - 2:
pierce, Will Blozan
User avatar
Bart Bouricius
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:41 am
Location: Amherst, MA USA
Has Liked: 109 times
Has Been Liked: 298 times
Print view this post

#29)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Bart Bouricius » Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:23 pm

Lucas

Taxonomic species question which keeps popping up.  I am choosing to use the name Quercus bumelioides for reasons which I will now specify.  First, I could care less whether you call this oak species Q. bumeliodes or Q. copeyensis as long as the name is accepted by the most current respected taxonomists in their recent revisions (often published in monographs of the genus or family).  

When identifying tropical tree species, taxonomists have pretty much agreed world wide to use a web site called Tropicos which is curated by the Missouri Botanical Garden with help from the major botanical gardens and museums around the world.  At this site, anyone publishing such revisions uses this site for publishing an on line revision.  So after reviewing the description obtained from the field, which will include images of leaves and often collected live or dead leaves and flowers, fruits or seeds, if available, I then go to my books on Costa Rican and Panamanian trees such as the six volumes of "Manual De Plantas De Costa Rica" (the volume including Quercus was published in 2010) and was published by the Missouri Botanical Garden Press.  This source uses  Quercus bumelioides.  An older 1996 source Manual Dendrologico De Costa Rica uses the Q. copeyensis latin name.  Marten Kappelle's 2008 book in Spanish and English Biodiversity of the Oak Forests of Tropical America uses Q. bumelioides.  After consulting a few other sources, I then went on line to Tropoicos.org where 4 sources, including 7 taxonomist authors, are named as accepting Q. bumelioide[/i.  Here are the references:

 > Breedlove, D.E. 1986. Flora de Chiapas. Listados Floríst. México 4: i–v, 1–246.
 >Correa A., M.D., C. Galdames & M. Stapf. 2004. Cat. Pl. Vasc. Panamá 1–599. Smithsonian Tropical Research Institute, Panamá.  
 >Morales Quirós, J. F. 2010. Fagaceae. En: Manual de Plantas de Costa Rica. Vol. V. B.E. Hammel, M.H. Grayum, C. Herrera & N. Zamora (eds.). Monogr. Syst.      Bot. Missouri Bot. Gard. 119: 776–781.
 >Stevens, W. D., C. Ulloa Ulloa, A. Pool & O. M. Montiel. 2001. Flora de Nicaragua. Monogr. Syst. Bot. Missouri Bot. Gard. 85: i–xlii,.

Then I did a Tropicos name search for [i]Q. copeyensis
which yielded only these much older references, representing only 2 authors, who accepted the name:

Burger, W.C. 1977. Family 50. Fagaceae. En: W. C. Burger (ed.), Flora Costaricensis. Fieldiana, Bot. 40: 59–82.  View in Biodiversity Heritage Library
Reference article Muller, C. H. 1942. The Central American species of Quercus. U.S.D.A. Bur. Pl. Industr. Misc. Publ. 477: 1–216.
Reference article Muller, C. H. 1960. Flora of Panama, Part IV. Fascicle 2. Fagaceae. Ann. Missouri Bot. Gard. 47(2): 95–104.

Most living professional taxonomists concerned with the genus Quercus, seem to no longer be accepting Q. copeyensis, thus I am sticking with Quercus bumelioides until some evidence is provided to change my mind.
Last edited by Bart Bouricius on Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Bart Bouricius
 
Posts: 531
Joined: Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:41 am
Location: Amherst, MA USA
Has Liked: 109 times
Has Been Liked: 298 times
Print view this post

#30)  Re: Costa Rica: Astounding high altitude "Grandfather Oak"

Postby Lucas » Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:33 pm

Thx for the info.

It was very confusing as what was what especially since I do not concentrate on tropical oaks.

http://www.tropicos.org/  

There was a typo.

Also, on Quercus costaricensis, the encino oak.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
User avatar
Lucas
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:55 pm
Has Liked: 0 times
Has Been Liked: 125 times
Print view this post

PreviousNext

Return to Central America

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest