Shoot Them

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jamesrobertsmith
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Shoot Them

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:48 am

Here's a novel approach from locals tired of illegal logging:

Kill the loggers.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/ ... 19374.html

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Will Blozan
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by Will Blozan » Tue Jul 24, 2012 4:36 pm

JRS,

Illegal or not, the loggers are a tool. Consumers are the source of blame.

Will

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Chris
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by Chris » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:16 pm

Interesting region. The sat. image shows numerous cinders cones, with the mountains forested, but valleys, I assume, used for grazing.
cheran.jpg
Here is the description of the ecoregion
The characteristic vegetation consists of temperate-humid forests that, unlike Madrean forests, have highly diverse undergrowth. It is common for forests in the Transverse Neovolcanic Belt to develop to considerable heights, with trees from 30 to 40 meters tall, including both conifers and broadleaf trees. Natural vegetation has been conserved to varying degrees. It is important to note that this is a subregion with considerable demographic pressure and it has been intensively exploited since pre-Hispanic times. Temperate forests cover 39.5 percent (29,033 km2) of the subregion, but could have potentially covered 85 percent of the land area. Predominant forests are pine, oak and mixed forests, with a great variety of species, especially Mexican white pine (Pinus ayacahuite), Mexican mountain pine (P. hartwegii), Chihuahua pine (P. leiophylla), ocote pine (P. montezuma), smooth-bark Mexican pine (P. pseudostrobus), teocote pine (P. teocote), castanea oak (Quercus castanea), red oak (Q. crassipes), Q. laurina, Q. magnoliifolia, Q. obtusata, resinous oak (Q. resinosa) and netleaf oak (Q. rugosa).
It also says (emphasis added)
This subregion is very important for the national economy in all areas, including agriculture and forestry, as well as industry and commerce. The natural environment has changed dramatically, especially the forests, which have suffered intensive extraction of forest products. Currently, many forests in this subregion are under controlled management, although clandestine extraction continues at many sites.

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:32 am

Very sad.

When Richard Leakey was in charge of Kenya's National Parks and was given free reign to control poachers, he did so by training and arming the Park rangers to shoot and kill poachers on sight. Yes, it wasn't the same as killing the rich Chinese buying the ivory and rhino horn, but it stopped the poaching cold in its tracks. Sometimes these measures are needed, especially where humans are concerned.

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:47 am

The issue here is that illegal (not legal) logging is occurring. In the Mexican context, the villagers taking matters into their own hands is how they've had to deal with everything. People are getting shot for all kinds of reasons. I admire their courage and determination but it's a very bad model (solving problems with guns) to extend to areas where rule of law has a chance to work if forest advocates apply themselves.
-AJ

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:54 am

Reason I'm saying that is that old-growth preservationists who use direct action/civil disobedience are being labeled as eco-terrorists. No need to add fuel to that propaganda/word spin war. Result is that people who practice non-violent strategies like tree-sitting etc. get tarred with the terrorist label. As passionate as many of us are about preserving old-growth and forest, it's really important to disassociate from violent strategies. The situation in Mexico is unique, when there is no functional infrastructure of law and law enforcement all bets are off.
-AJ

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jamesrobertsmith
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by jamesrobertsmith » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:54 pm

Very bad model, indeed. Sad that they're reduced to that.

In Leakey's case, he was in charge of the National Parks of Kenya and had been given the authority to protect the wildlife. One elephant is worth far more than any number of humans engaged in elephant poaching or any number of rich humans buying elephant ivory.

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Rand
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Re: Shoot Them

Post by Rand » Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:48 am

jamesrobertsmith wrote:Very bad model, indeed. Sad that they're reduced to that.

In Leakey's case, he was in charge of the National Parks of Kenya and had been given the authority to protect the wildlife. One elephant is worth far more than any number of humans engaged in elephant poaching or any number of rich humans buying elephant ivory.
It's a sad commentary on the economic state of a country where it takes lethal force to offset the economic incentive to break the law.

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