Historical Photo From Stearns.

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#11)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby Will Blozan » Thu Nov 13, 2014 10:33 am

Gaines,

I do recall the photos you reference and agree, they could be from WV. The photo I posted has been cited as being the Lead Mine Oak- that is why I posted it.

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#12)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby John Harvey » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:06 am

Is the Leadmine tree also referred to as the Mingo Oak?
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#13)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby gnmcmartin » Thu Nov 13, 2014 11:38 am

Johnny:

  No, completely different. What intrigues me about the Leadmine oak, is that the picture I saw was accompanied by lots of reports from people at the time about this tree, and exactly where it grew.  It was not from some photo buried in some drawer, and then found and assumed to be a tree from the local area.  I find the persistence of these photos appalling, because anyone who knows anything about trees can see they are not what they are purported to be.

  I was the culprit who posted the photo of white pines a few weeks ago, that turned out to be either sugar pines or western white pines.  At least they looked like pine trees of the white pine group. I was fooled.  But lots and lots of these pictures couldn't fool anyone who has any knowledge of trees and a decent "eye."

  The Mingo tree seems to be indisputable, and I think clarifies that a tree of the size of the Leadmine oak, while a bit hard to believe, is possible.  I will grant that the measurements taken of the Leadmine tree might include some inaccuracy/exaggeration, but I believe it is quite probable that the reports were substantially correct.

  The Mingo tree, based on a ring count, was about 584 years old.  White oaks live to very, very advanced ages, so It is possible that the Leadmine tree was older, but no one reported any ring counts. I am unspeakably frustrated that I have been unable to relocate the photo I saw.  But at the time, having seen so many falsely identified photos, I took a very hard, hard look at it, and couldn't see anything that disqualified its authenticity to my eyes, based on my tree knowledge, however imperfect it may be. Of course I will have some measure of doubt until I can find the photo again, and have someone who knows railroads of the time, identify the cars/engine.  I can't remember for sure if the engine was in the photo, but the cars should do.

  --Gaines
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#14)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby Will Blozan » Thu Nov 13, 2014 12:51 pm

Gaines,

Your reply after a search for the photo on 1/25/2010...

Will, Turner, ENTS:
  In my new search through my books--I have way to many--I found my
copy of Carkson's book after all. The first picture doesn't look like
a white oak to me--the "color" contrast between the heartwood and
sapwood just doesn't look anywhere near right. And the bark doesn't
look right either, but that is not quite so obvious. This picture was,
to my eye,  taken out west.

  As for the second picture--it is hard to tell what the tree is.
One strange thing is that the bark seems to have been stripped off.
Now that is what they did with the large hemlocks before there was any
general logging in the area.  The bark was stripped for its tannin,
and the tanning of leather was one of the first industries to take
hold in the area. Supporting that view is the fact that the background
doesn't show any general logging.  But then that could be just by
chance.  In general, although the picture is fuzzy, this could have
been taken in WV--I can't rule it out. But then it could be some place
distant also.

 The stripping of the bark makes me believe that whatever the tree
is, it is probably not a white oak.  There is some tannin in white oak
bark, but not so much that I have ever heard of its being stripped for
that purpose at the time. The fact that the bark has been stripped off
is something that has to be accounted for.

  Anyway, what clinches the fact that these pictures are not what
they are supposed to be, is that the logs in the second picture
couldn't have come from the tree being cut down in the first.  Case
closed on those pictures.

  One thing doesn't fit with the hemlock/bark stripping theory--why
would the log have been cut into sections?  The hemlocks cut for bark
stripping were not cut up and used for lumber--they were simply left
in the woods to rot.  Cutting this tree into sections must have been a
huge amount of work for two men with the kind of crosscut saws they
used in those days--pointless if this was a hemlock cut for its bark.
But then I am not absolutely sure about this--they may have used some
of the hemlock that was cut and stripped.  But why such a large log,
something so difficult to handle, and which would not have fit the
capabilities of any sawmill in the area?  I just can't figure this
out.

   Anyway, the tree/logs in these two pictures look nothing like the
one I am referring to.  And the sections of the white oak on the rail
cars I THINK I saw pictured, had the bark on.  So in no way could this
be the same tree in some earlier stage of processing.

  Well, I hope you can  imagine my frustration in all of this.  I
know a mind can play tricks on its owner, and the phenomenon of "false
memory" is well documented. But can that be what I am suffering from?
I really doubt it.

  Well, if I can find the picture, you can be sure I will get back to you all.

  --Gaines
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#15)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby gnmcmartin » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:05 pm

Thanks will, for reminding me of my former frustration.  Hah!  Nothing's changed.

  Since that time, I have not had the free time I used to have, and have not had a chance to get into the two local museums that might have the photo I saw.  One is in kingwood, WV, the other in Oakland, MD. But there are one or two other possibilities. I am not sure why a photo of that tree--or the remnants of the trunk on railroad cars--would have wound up in Garrett County MD, or Kingwood, WV. Maybe I saw it somewhere else, or, in fact, in some other book than the ones I have looked at so far. I know I have searched through the one I have about logging in the area, and one about the railroads--I am tempted to go through those books, page-by-page again, but I think that would be silly. I should talk to the librarian at the Garrett County library and see if that person knows of any book that could be the one that had the photo. They should have any and all books that have been published about local history.

  --Gaines
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#16)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby gnmcmartin » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:50 pm

Folks:

  I have found an on-line site to search.  I have not found it yet, but I did find this, which might be of interest.  this is from the same area as the leadmine oak.

  http://images.lib.wvu.edu/cgi/i/image/i ... 034899.JPG

  --Gaines
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#17)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby gnmcmartin » Thu Nov 13, 2014 4:52 pm

Folks:

  I found this little tidbit:

 One of the earliest men to write of the state’s ancient forests was a surveyor by the name of George Washington. On November 4, 1770, while plotting the Kanawha River, he wrote in his journal, “Just as we came to the hills, we met with a Sycamore… of a most extraordinary size, it measuring three feet from the ground, forty-five feet round, lacking two inches; and not fifty yards from it was another, thirty-one feet round.”

  Also, the ridiculous follows the ridiculous--I have found the same picture of two men cutting down what looks like a giant sequoia in the archives of TWO different counties in WV, with the claim that it was the largest tree cut down in WV.  This tree did get around!!

  So far, I have not found the picture I am searching for.

  --Gaines

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#18)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby Larry Tucei » Thu Nov 13, 2014 5:18 pm

Gaines-  Came across this link it metions the Lead Mine Oak and has a photo. http://www.patc.us/history/archive/virg_fst.html Another Link  http://www.keyboardsforchrist.com/train12.html   Found this photo.
               
                       
Lead Mine Oak.jpg
                                       
               
 "The largest tree logged in the State of West Virginia, near Lead Mine, Tucker County, 1913. This white oak, as large as any California Sequoia, was probably well over 1,000 years old. It measured 13 feet in diameter 16 feet from the base, and 10 feet in diameter 31 feet from the base."  Link that the photo came from.  http://www.uplandjournal.com/cgi-bin/ik ... =4;t=78608

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#19)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby gnmcmartin » Thu Nov 13, 2014 8:38 pm

Larry:

  And, in fact it is a sequoia--or a redwood.  The contrast between the heartwood and the sapwood, rules out a white oak, as does the bark.

  People heard about the tree. and then found a picture of a giant tree being cut, and said, "that's it." This silliness is destructive, and I am disgusted!

  --Gaines

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#20)  Re: Historical Photo From Stearns.

Postby Ranger Dan » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:08 am

Larry, thanks for rounding up links to those websites that show pictures of sequoias, claiming them to be white oaks and other eastern trees.  The American Chestnut Foundation also has used the same or similar sequoia image, claiming it to be an American chestnut.  Hopefully a credible authority will officially post some reputable corrections to these sites.

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