More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Discussions of current science research and issues that is being done by others as it relates to our interests.

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

#1)  More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby Josh Kelly » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:48 pm

Check out this article by the American Bird Conservancy.  Apparently, it's not enough to test chemical toxicity on bobwhite quail and mallard ducks, alone.  Claims of toxicity to songbirds are supported by a 200 page report.  I haven't had time to wade through this, but the evidence does seem to be mounting that agricultural use of neonicotinoids is a toxic practice.  I continue to be troubled that the most effective tool for saving trees from non-native insect pests has so many downsides to it.  

http://www.abcbirds.org/newsandreports/releases/130319.html
User avatar
Josh Kelly
 
Posts: 124
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:13 pm
Has Liked: 5 times
Has Been Liked: 70 times
Print view this post

#2)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby jamesrobertsmith » Mon Mar 25, 2013 3:02 pm

It's looking bad for that most effective of tools. Of course the best tool for many pests was DDT and society had to face the fact that it was dangerous and had horrid effects for the various ecosystems into which it was introduced. The same could be said for the Neonictoinoids.
User avatar
jamesrobertsmith
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:32 am
Location: Matthews, NC
Has Liked: 525 times
Has Been Liked: 118 times
Print view this post

#3)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby Will Blozan » Mon Mar 25, 2013 6:39 pm

Josh,

I do hope that the "powers that be" who ultimately decide the restrictions for use of neonicotiniods will realize that the work to save hemlock and ash is an infinitesimal fraction of the worldwide and domestic US use of the products. Furthermore, the use of birds of those species is likely minimal and the benefits of a healthy hemlock forest would far outweigh any possible negligible impact on birds.

Will
User avatar
Will Blozan
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 8:13 pm
Location: North Carolina
Has Liked: 1558 times
Has Been Liked: 442 times
Print view this post

#4)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby jamesrobertsmith » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:00 pm

Apparently the problems arise when the stuff is used on a mass scale at factory farms. They pretty much saturate the soil with it and even pre-treat seed stock with it.
User avatar
jamesrobertsmith
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:32 am
Location: Matthews, NC
Has Liked: 525 times
Has Been Liked: 118 times
Print view this post

#5)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby Rand » Mon Mar 25, 2013 7:25 pm

Will Blozan wrote:Josh,

I do hope that the "powers that be" who ultimately decide the restrictions for use of neonicotiniods will realize that the work to save hemlock and ash is an infinitesimal fraction of the worldwide and domestic US use of the products. Furthermore, the use of birds of those species is likely minimal and the benefits of a healthy hemlock forest would far outweigh any possible negligible impact on birds.

Will


Good luck explaining that to everyone else who wants their own private, little exception...

I bet the politicians have a more interesting life than we give them credit for.

For this message the author Rand has received Likes :
Will Blozan
User avatar
Rand
 
Posts: 1155
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:25 pm
Location: Ohio
Has Liked: 272 times
Has Been Liked: 377 times
Print view this post

#6)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby AndrewJoslin » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:01 pm

Yep, it's too bad that the stuff is so heavily overused n agriculture, doesn't help the highly targeted use on hemlock. Nobody in politics or public policy likes subtlety and gray areas.

With hemlocks going out of the ecosystem I worry about the bird species that depend on them. In winter black-capped chickadee does a lot of foraging on hemlock cones. On the ground ruffed grouse takes shelter under hemlocks when snow cover is deep and they feed on cones/seed on the ground. In eastern Massachusetts black-throated warbler nests primarily in eastern hemlock. Last 5 years BT warbler is pretty much gone from my local woods as the hemlocks severely declined. Never mind all the other ways hemlocks help the local ecosystems, for one keeping small brooks and streams shaded and cool, makes the trout and other stream inhabitants happy.

There could be issues with any of these co-related birds and fish being effected by treatments for adelgids. It's a wash anyway since the hemlock as a viable ecosystem component is on the way out. Their "dependents" will suffer much more from the loss.
-AJ

For this message the author AndrewJoslin has received Likes - 2:
jamesrobertsmith, Will Blozan
User avatar
AndrewJoslin
 
Posts: 400
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 8:36 pm
Location: Jamaica Plain, Massachusetts
Has Liked: 163 times
Has Been Liked: 89 times
Print view this post

#7)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby jamesrobertsmith » Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:16 pm

Another set of fibers plucked out the web of life. It's all going, a string here, one there. Eventually the whole thing's going to collapse and it'll have to start all over again. First time I know of that a mass extinction has been caused by a single species. The sooner we're gone,the sooner the ecosystems can reestablish themselves and find a new balance.
User avatar
jamesrobertsmith
 
Posts: 905
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 6:32 am
Location: Matthews, NC
Has Liked: 525 times
Has Been Liked: 118 times
Print view this post

#8)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby Ashe County » Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:53 pm

I have eliminated the use of imidacloprid as a borer treatment on my young fruit trees after a big honeybee dieoff in the area.  I applied it only after bloom but the carryover effect in the next season is concerning.   I will monitor and continue to treat my hemlock tho, at least until the stuff can't be sold over the counter everywhere in town.  Given the political climate in this country, that might be a while.  The savage gulf may not be a large enough ecosystem to preserve a bird species, but I see merit (pun intended)  in preserving such areas intact there, in Kentucky, and further north.  The need for treatment should become less after hemlock is wiped out in nearby areas.
User avatar
Ashe County
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:00 pm
Location: yep, Ashe County
Has Liked: 1 times
Has Been Liked: 3 times
Print view this post

#9)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby Ashe County » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:29 pm

recent article in Knox news states predator beetles "increasing in number" in the smokies, and the park is adding two new species.  I was under the impression that the effort to establish beetle populations sufficient to impact the problem had been nearly a complete failure.  anyone know the source of this comment?
User avatar
Ashe County
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 8:00 pm
Location: yep, Ashe County
Has Liked: 1 times
Has Been Liked: 3 times
Print view this post

#10)  Re: More Troubling News about Neonicotinoid Insecticides

Postby edfrank » Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:29 pm

I don't know the source of the statement.  The assessment that beetle introduction has been a complete failure is still right on the money as far as I am concerned.  All of the great hemlocks are dead.  All of the hemlock forests are dead.  There are scattered living small hemlocks, but I do not have any confidence that even an increasing number of predatory beetles will protect these remnants.   it is like saying "Success!!!  the fire burnt the house down, but we put the fire out afterward."
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky
User avatar
edfrank
Site Admin
 
Posts: 4194
{ IMAGES }: 0
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 6:46 pm
Location: Reynoldsville, Pennsylvania, USA
Has Liked: 915 times
Has Been Liked: 706 times
Blog: View Blog (3)
Print view this post

Next

Return to General Science Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron