Brandywine Creek State Park

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George Fieo
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Re: Brandywine Creek State Park

Post by George Fieo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:48 pm

sjhalow wrote:Wow! I haven't seen anything comparable here in SW Pa. Truly Impressive. Congratulations George, great work!

I'm finding that the tall/large tree sites are between Philadelphia PA and Wilmington DE. There is still lots to discover.


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George Fieo
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Re: Brandywine Creek State Park

Post by George Fieo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:34 pm

Will Blozan wrote:George,

Stellar job! Looking at the aerials last summer I definitely had my eye on that area, and then after our trip to Winterthur I was even more encouraged. Are there any more similar areas left in DE? I wonder what lurkes unnoticed in some of the protected coves even on smaller sites.

Excellent report and awesome work!



This is the site I visited before we met up at Winterthur and Tulip Tree Woods was the site of the tall trees I told you about. Other than privately owned properties, Flint Woods Preserve and adjacent properties may be comparable to Brandywine Creek SP but much smaller in acreage. It is owned by the Delaware Nature Society and is a oak, hickory, beech, and tulip forest. The DNC also owns the six acre Cedar Bog Preserve and contains a mature stand of Atlantic white cedar. Do we have any data for Atlantic white cedar? I can likely check out both of these sites this winter if all goes well. Thanks.


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George Fieo
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Re: Brandywine Creek State Park

Post by George Fieo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:39 pm

Bart Bouricius wrote:George,

Very impressive post. I stopped at that park briefly many years ago on a trip back from Florida, but I had no idea what treasures there were deeper within the park.

There are all kinds of treasures once you get off the beaten path. No matter where you are.


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Re: Brandywine Creek State Park

Post by edfrank » Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:06 am


Great trip report once again. The question of where to classify Delaware as region is an interesting one. We have discussed this topic before: ... isions.htm In that thread I proposed:
Breakdowns of naturally occurring phenomena and features should be based upon natural break points in the continuum. I feel, if you are looking at zones based upon latitude, there really are three zones for consideration in the eastern US. I would break the data into these three sets.

A northern zone: Including NY and New England, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

A Mid-transition zone with mixed forest types: Including PA, OH IN, IL, MO, KY, WV, VA, MD, DC, DE, NJ

A southern zone: NC, TN, ARK, LA, Miss, AL, SC, GA, and FL (except for extreme southern FL).

Again all of the forest types intermingle, but the political boundaries cited seem to match reasonably well to the three zones I delineated. When the boundaries are variable north and south with intermingling, a political boundary that matches fairly well is as good as a latitude boundary that doesn't match any better. There are also some practical and common usage considerations which would favor political boundaries also.

The basic boundaries of the forests are not so much north south as NE-SW and linked to geographical/climatic zones. There is a northern zone as defined above, Appalachian Mountains, Western Plateau regions, Midwestern Plains, and Southern coastal plain.

My Northern Zone included most of the Northern Hardwoods, Boreal Forest, Northern Savannah, and some maple-basswood.

The Middle Zone included many different forest types, both northern and southern and included most of the northern pine-oak, most of the beech-maple, much of the oak-hickory, and some mixed Appalachian among other fragments.

The Southern Zone included almost all of the Southern hardwood, a big chunk of the Oak-Hickory, Mixed Appalachian, and Southern Mixed Pine-Oak.
This is really an oversimplification but one way to look at it. Still I find myself lumping PA with the northeast in many posts. There isn't really any good match for forest region versus political boundaries. You should follow the complete thread to get some of the back and forth. Perhaps the topic could be broken out and revisited here with more views from other people.

The other idea I really liked was by Darian Copiz. He wrote:
I would propose using the NatureServe ecological systems: ... ystems.jsp

"Ecological systems represent recurring groups of biological communities that are found in similar physical environments and are influenced by similar dynamic ecological processes, such as fire or flooding"
The full document is here: ... ystems.pdf

and it features a nice map with reasonable boundaries:
On this map Delaware and southern New Jersey are part of the Gulf and Atlantic Coastal Plain, while southern Pennsylvania is Central Interior and Appalachian.


"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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Re: Brandywine Creek State Park

Post by greenent22 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:26 pm

Yeah, a magical place. I was once there (I think, see later) as a little kid and the memories of it have stuck with me to this day. I just recall a magical place with the most amazingly huge trees. Been meaning to go there again since forever. Somehow the place just stuck with me. I think. The thing is neither I nor my parents remember exactly where we went, but it was somewhere in that general region so I've always guessed it must be this park. Descriptions of the park seem to be the best fit.

(I'd actually suggest that some might be older than people think per size rather than younger, granted Delaware might be just far enough south that maybe the typical estimates are right, but from what I see in NJ, I really think that in forest grown trees, not in the South, get under-estimated as per age of ten enough, you just can't compare to known open or field specimens of the North whatsoever to any remote sense at all of forest tree ages by size or look, anyway just my slowly building opinion although probably in extreme minority here.)

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