Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

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mdvaden
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by mdvaden » Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:14 am

Don wrote:John- .......

For other reasons, I spend a week every year for the last 20 at 5300-7000 in the Sierras in the midst of the classic mixed conifer old-growth, probably my favorite forest, yes even over the Sequoias or the coast redwoods. And every other year or so, I throw in the Bristlecone/Foxtail Pine forests along Hiway 395 in the White Mtns./Sierras, respectively. This year is the year I'll double down, weather permitting, and do both.
........

-Don
Don,

Recently, I updated my redwood discovery page that Sequoia sempervirens finally surpassed General Sherman's 1321 points, by no less than 40 points. Quite a bit more actually, but I capped the note at 40 for now. Both those species are monumental without a doubt. Each one has its own niche. With or without surrounding vegetation, most people probably couldn't tell which species was the largest. Both would seem simply huge. And if someone were not educated on the fact, they would probably assume giant sequoias are equally as tall as coast redwood.

But given time and a camera, I would probably spend 10 times more time photographing the smaller Bristlecones, etc., like you posted. Generally, given size vs. character, my attention will be drawn to shapes and weathering.
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Don
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Don » Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:11 pm

Mario-
I seem to be inexorably drawn to old-growth bark characteristics...they're almost invariably different in appearance than their young counterparts, even when of similar girth. And then with species that show age, AND economy (the prototypical narrow strip of cambium that the tree is able to carry on the business of persistence), well I'm properly gobsmacked. Perhaps as much but in a different way, than when faced with giant sequoias and redwoods, Douglas firs, cedars, and all the big boys!
I do think that the five-needle pines and the western junipers of the high sierras do a proper job of demonstrating "antiquity"!
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Larry Tucei
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Larry Tucei » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:11 pm

John-
Great images of some of the largest trees on the Planet- Don- Great images of Foxtail and Bristlecone! You know we should have a California Ents -Wnts extravaganza in the near future! It would be great to help promote these special places and to make people aware of how delicate this Ecosystem really is! You western guys would know where to go and we could visit several different sites time, weather permitting. What say you Don, Will, Bob, John, Michael, Mario, Duncan, BVP, Mark, Matt, Don B, Randy, Chris and all. Larry

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gnmcmartin
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by gnmcmartin » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:00 pm

Back to the original question, coast redwoods or giant sequoias? Much of the time, my preference has been whichever one I was walking among at the time. But, if I were to pick just one spot that is my favorite "tree place," it would be standing among the trees in the "House Group" near the end of the Congress Trail walk in Sequoia National Park. These trees are nowhere near the largest trees, and are smaller in diameter than the average giant sequoia because they are growing so close together, and have relatively small and short crowns. BUT, looking up amidst these trees is the most stunning "tree experience" I have ever had, and I visited this spot a number of times. The trunks, all rising so close together, reddish, with the large flutes or bark ridges, make me think of some temple to some unspeakable/indescribable power, or source of beauty, in nature. To use the cliché, this is the most stunning "forest cathedral" effect I have seen. In the evening, near sunset, these trunks rising so beautifully, seem to have their own inner glow--a reddish kind of radiance--and seem to reveal some special inner essence of nature, towering up to what seems like an unimaginable height.

--Gaines

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Don
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Don » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:26 pm

Gaines-
I will be driving from Alaska to Arizona over the next month, and may have the freedom to visit the 'House Group' (end of Congress Trail walk)...do you have any sense of what part of Sequoia NP it's in?
-Don
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Don
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Don » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:04 pm

Larry-
That's an excellent idea, and I'd encourage it.
But first, I should point out that California is much bigger a state than most realize...you'd be hard pressed (and who'd wanna) to drive from the Coastal Redwoods of Del Norte County to the Sequoia groves in the Placer, Fresno, and Tulare counties, in one long day (and I just checked, there are 107 breweries in between!).
To go from Sequoia NP to Bristlecone "NF", involves a 6 hour drive (by way of Tehachapi, 5 by way of Yosemite)...but there's a lot in between worth seeing and it would be hard to go Point A to B directly.
Just saying, it would be no small undertaking!
-Don
Larry Tucei wrote:John-
Great images of some of the largest trees on the Planet- Don- Great images of Foxtail and Bristlecone! You know we should have a California Ents -Wnts extravaganza in the near future! It would be great to help promote these special places and to make people aware of how delicate this Ecosystem really is! You western guys would know where to go and we could visit several different sites time, weather permitting. What say you Don, Will, Bob, John, Michael, Mario, Duncan, BVP, Mark, Matt, Don B, Randy, Chris and all. Larry
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Grand Canyon National Park

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gnmcmartin
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by gnmcmartin » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:00 pm

Don:

It is in the Giant Forest section, which is the main sequoia attraction in the park. The trail starts from the parking lot for the General Sherman tree. The President tree and the McKinley tree and the Chief Sequoia tree are all on the trail. The Senate Group is also impressive--fewer trees, larger trees, but not quite the "cathedral effect" of the House group. I am not sure, but I think the trees in the House Group are just about as tall as any of the sequoias. At one time they were so advertised, but so many measurements have had to be revised since those days.

If you are on this trail, and have a small trail map of the area, don't miss Crescent Meadow, the trail to which connects with the Congress Grove trail. John Muir called Crescent Meadow the "jewel of the Sierra." Or did he use the term "gem" instead of "jewel." Doesn't matter--an absolutely stunning place surrounded by large sequoias. If you visit this place, don't "rush," but let things "soak in." I would pack a lunch, and spend a whole day on these two trails, picking nice spots to sit and let things "come to you," so to speak. This trail is one of the most popular trails in the Park, but don't let that bother you. If you want a bit of solitude, let the people pass, wait, and you can have it.

There is also a separate parking lot for Crescent Meadow, and the trail to it from that lot is very short. The famous Log Meadow is right next to Crescent Meadow, and Tharp had his log house there, which he used when he grazed his cattle there in the summer. But if you have time, hike through from the Congress Grove trail. Fewer people do that, and you will see much more beautiful forest.

And a short climb up Morro rock is nice--also right in the same area. Grand view!

And for a more "mountain hike," you can hike to Bear Paw Meadow. I did that in early spring one time, before anything there was open, and camped for the night. When we arrived, we were lost in fog, and the snow was so deep, we couldn't find the trail easily. In the end, we camped on the little porch of a pavilion there, lost in the fog, above kaweah Canyon. At about 2 a.m. all three of us woke up in the moonlight. The fog had settled down into the valley/canyon, like some grand sea, and the high sierra loomed over us, all shimmering white with snow in the moonlight. Maybe the most beautiful and spectacular scene I have ever seen. And we could hear rising up from below the rushing water from streams and waterfalls full from the spring melting.

But in the "season," this area is likely to be crowded, so....

Sequoia park is more than the groves of grand, unbelievable trees!

Well, I'm nothing if I don't digress.

--Gaines




--Gaines

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Don
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Don » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:30 pm

Gaines-
Appreciate the 'must see' list, and I've printed your post, to have at the ready in the next month. I have many memories of the Sierras, some captured by cameras, too many entrusted to memories that don't grow sharper with time. I am so thankful for the digital camera era, allowing many more images to be captured. Inexpensively.
-Don

John-
Sorry we 'highjacked' your original post, your superlative images brought to mind others. Largest, tallest, oldest; we revere them all...may we not love them to death! Your un-named photos are the start.
-Don
PS:Attaching an image I like, not for being superlative, but for something about it's setting...9000' plus, exposed along the Sierrra Crest, somewhat harsh environment yet what there is, has thrived over time with apparent vigor...krumholtz-ed junipers? An ecosystem unto itself? A community avatar?
DSCN1853.jpg
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John Harvey
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by John Harvey » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:57 pm

Larry, Don. Mario, all,

An NTS trip out here would be awesome. Don is right though that it is a HUGE state. The GS and the redwoods couldn't be fit into a practical and affordable trip for most ...... actually they could but you would be comparing the great Sequoias to the redwoods in places like Big Basin and Muir Woods. Not a fair comparison and even then we would have to rent a bus and a driver. Even still, either forest will be larger and taller than most have seen.

Don, I really appreciate your photos. The character and age of those trees and your photographs have bumped that area up to #1 on my "next new place to go" list.

Both species in their old growth state are equally impressive but as far as my personal "wow" factor goes, there are no two trees that I am aware of on this planet that hit you quite as hard as General Grant and General Sherman. I can rattle off a list of coast redwoods I was literally shocked by the first time I saw them but these two Giant Sequoias have no rivals.
John D Harvey (JohnnyDJersey)

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Don
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Re: Coast Redwood vs Giant Sequoia

Post by Don » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:37 am

John-
Don't know why i didn't think of earlier, but with your interest in the redwoods in general, I'm attaching an article mentioning historical documentation of Bay Area redwood accounts...it has scanned sections that are sideways, but worth perusing I think...
-Don
More recent account...
Go to: http://baynature.org/article/in-the-shadow-of-giants/
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

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