New dbh champ for SESE

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John Harvey
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by John Harvey » Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:17 pm

AndrewJoslin wrote:A photo can be taken that documents an important tree and does not compromise the location of the tree. It's as simple as that. For significant trees that are located very close to tourist focal point areas, Prairie Creek Redwoods comes to mind, it makes sense perhaps not to post photos that would bring unwanted foot traffic. One size fits all policy for photos of important old-growth trees does not make sense. Many trees can be photographed safely without harming them now or very far into the future. Good judgement is the key, every situation is different.
-AJ
Andrew makes a good point here. There have been several times where I've photo'd one of the easier to find titan redwoods that happened to be close to a popular trail and went out of my way to hide the trail in the photo so I could share it with everyone. A vague photo alone of any redwood, especially an "off trail" and tougher to get to tree will probably not make it easier to find. It may make it identifiable if a hard core searcher were to come across it but that wouldn't threated the well being of the tree. If I came across Crocodile I wouldn't need a photo to let me know I found something special. It would be an instant observation and I would be tape wrapping it as 80ft+ CBH Redwoods are extremely rare. In fact if I had to take a guess Id say 95%+ of old growth coast redwoods are led than 40ft around at breast with 20s and 30s being the norm. Obviously the average circumference increases in Prairie Creek and Jed Smith. Less than 1% have a burless girth of over 50ft as entire parks lack one specimen with that girth. (Richardson Grove, Armstrong Redwoods, Muir Woods ect). Anyway Im just rambling off subject now.
John D Harvey (JohnnyDJersey)

East Coast and West Coast Big Tree Hunter

"If you look closely at a tree you'll notice it's knots and dead branches, just like our bodies. What we learn is that beauty and imperfection go together wonderfully." - Matt Fox

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mdavie
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by mdavie » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:13 pm

I was wondering how showing a photo of a tree in the woods could possibly compromise its location until Erik mentioned that another person could recognize it and publicize the location. I don't know how often that would happen, but I suppose it could. I think most of the trees I've found have been seen by virtually no one, and if they were seen they weren't noticed for what was superlative. But redwoods are a special, charismatic case. I appreciate people sticking to their personal ethics, whether I agree or not; it's pretty good when people have ethics in the first place!

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by Erik Danielsen » Sat Jul 12, 2014 1:16 pm

Johnny, your post made me realize a sort of flip-side to the recognition issue. If you found that tree and recognized it from a picture and already knew what its tape-wrapped circumference was, you probably wouldn't bother to wrap it yourself. If you don't recognize it, you will wrap it, and so might someone else, and someone else, and before you know it there are impacts, at least if the narrative fulfills its hypothetical extremes. If the image of a recognizable tree and some satisfactory numbers are available together it might minimize unnecessary remeasuring. Pros and cons...

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John Harvey
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by John Harvey » Sat Jul 12, 2014 9:28 pm

Erik,
I didn't think of it that way. For instance I usually don't tape wrap a tree that has published measurements online because its already been done by an expert and it would only cause more wear. Grove of the Titans and Atlas Grove for instance I've never tape wrapped a tree there nor do I plan to. So interesting thought there.
John D Harvey (JohnnyDJersey)

East Coast and West Coast Big Tree Hunter

"If you look closely at a tree you'll notice it's knots and dead branches, just like our bodies. What we learn is that beauty and imperfection go together wonderfully." - Matt Fox

John Montague
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by John Montague » Mon Jul 14, 2014 12:33 am

Erik, you bring up an interesting point and a valid concern. However, It is my belief at this time that not posting photos creates more protection for the tree than posting photos.

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by Erik Danielsen » Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:16 pm

I support your decision; it's clearly something to be decided by the discoverer on a case-by-case basis. Again, pros and cons.

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John Harvey
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by John Harvey » Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:59 pm

Not to keep an old thread going but Save The Redwoods League had this article and it really fit into this conversation.

http://blog.savetheredwoods.org/the-pow ... servation/
John D Harvey (JohnnyDJersey)

East Coast and West Coast Big Tree Hunter

"If you look closely at a tree you'll notice it's knots and dead branches, just like our bodies. What we learn is that beauty and imperfection go together wonderfully." - Matt Fox

John Montague
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by John Montague » Tue Jul 22, 2014 11:22 am

Save the Redwoods is aware of many of the most secret champion trees and their locations, and it does not release photographs of those particular trees.

I agree with the article, though. Photography is a wonderful aspect of sharing the redwoods with others.

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Don
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by Don » Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:28 pm

Having traversed through the Redwoods variously since 1967, whether traveling in route to Humboldt State (College then, now a University) two or three times a year (for an embarrassing number of years), or in them for field labs just up the hill from campus, or visiting them as a tourist like everyone else, or while working as a forester, forester technician role for BLM or the USFS, I've had a chance to see many, many redwoods. And I look forward to seeing them many more times again.
That said, it seems to me that are abundant opportunities to view, photograph wonderful groves of redwoods featuring their enormity, incomprehensible heights, and their ecosystem through city, county, state and federal parks, forests, and interpretive sites.
It's probably not hard to guess my feelings about 'photographing the remote giants'...to me, and only me expressing a personal opinion, 'photographing the remote giants' is kind of like the hunter bagging trophies and seeking fame from the Boone and Crockett Club list. I suppose that I don't mind the hunter who proudly displays his mounts in his den, and only those he knows personally and invites into the hospitality of his home...but as an Alaskan, with a congressional member (R-Don Young) with a Congressional Office sporting an Arc-like array of mounts, and a strong International Safari Club presence, I might be oversensitive, but...

http://www.opensecrets.org/news/wp-cont ... ophies.jpg
Last edited by Don on Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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dbhguru
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Re: New dbh champ for SESE

Post by dbhguru » Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:57 am

Don,

Thanks for continuing this important discussion. I understand all the arguments. I live with the fear that my activities will overexpose the tall pines in MTSF. I work carefully with DCR to insure I don't expose the trees to exposure that the on-site resource manager fears would lead to over-visitation. It is a balancing act, and I always seek the input of others and work as part of a team.

With sequoia and redwood giants, it must also be a balancing act. It is appropriate and useful to continue discussing these issues from all sides.

All,

Thanks to you all for discussing this issue in such a mature, respectful manner. We're setting a pretty high standard these days for the discourse. There have been issues we strayed into in the past where passions ran high, but over all, we have a pretty darned high civility index score. Thanks.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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