Eastern States Rucker Comparisons

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tsharp
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by tsharp » Thu Aug 13, 2020 7:02 pm

Brian:
Quite an effort, thanks. Needed to be done and you picked up the ball and ran with it.
I quickly ran through your listings and made comparisons with the indices calculated on the Trees Db site. For the states I am familiar wite everything checked out pretty close except for Maryland and the District of Columbia. It looks like you included Maryland Rucker sites into the District and maybe shorted Maryland on height and inflated the District. I know you called it a composite but it still made the Maryland index low. Am I reading this correctly? Also i did not see an RHI for New Jersey.

'

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:20 am

Turner,

The lack of a NJ index was due to a lack of numbers. I just combed over New Jersey on Trees DB, and was able to get ten species, so that will be updated.

Definitely let me know of any specifics on incorrect numbers. I'm not familiar with many areas so some lines may be blurred. The goal is to have an accurate representation of heights across all regions so feel free to point out any discrepancies...and certainly get specific about them.

I see that Scotts Run and Turkey Run are actually in Virginia. I don't see any Maryland sites that I had as DC. I had Turkey Run listed under Virginia's numbers and DC's numbers. It will be removed from DC's. Washingron, District of Forests covers sites in VA and MD, as a composite, but MD still gets credit in its state numbers.

Brian

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tsharp
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by tsharp » Sat Aug 15, 2020 9:40 pm

Brian:
Updated numbers for West Virginia RHI - 20
Norway Spruce 143.1' Rothkugel Plantation by T. Sharp
Pignut Hickory 138.0' Rafferty tract by D. Cooley, T. Sharp
White Ash 137.8' holly River by J. Riddle
Also: You may have already changed this but the Mingo Park is not in West Virginia

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:24 am

Thanks, Turner,

I got all of the updates in and Parkersburg has been added as well. You have certainly covered your hometown!

Brian

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by Erik Danielsen » Tue Aug 18, 2020 1:42 pm

Hi Brian,

NYC Rucker updated:

RHI5: 135.22 RHI10: 129.06 RHI20: 121.87

5-
Tuliptree- 151.2 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Northern Red Oak- 135.8 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Bitternut Hickory- 131.1 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Chestnut Oak- 131 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
American Sycamore- 127 Van Cortlandt Park, Bronx

10-
White Oak- 124.4 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
London Planetree- 123.5 Prospect Park, Brooklyn
Sweetgum- 123.4 High Rock Park, Staten Island
Pignut Hickory- 122 Clove Lake Park, Staten Island
Cottonwood- 121.2 Riverdale Park, Bronx

20-
White Pine- 119.2 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Ginkgo- 119.1 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
American Elm- 117.5 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Sugar Maple- 114.5 Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Norway Spruce- 114.3 Pelham Bay Park, Bronx
Black Locust- Inwood Hill Park, Manhattan
Cucumber Magnolia- 112.8 Green-Wood Cemetery, Brooklyn
American Beech- 112.5 Clove Lakes Park, Staten Island
White Ash- 111.8 High Rock Park, Staten Island
English Elm- 111.8 Washington Square Park, Manhattan

And a few for the native maximums list:

81.9' 24.96 Southern Redcedar Juniperus silicicola Cumberland Island, GA Riddle
79' 24.08m Ogeechee Tupelo Nyssa ogeche Johnson, GA Danielson
76.5' 23.32m Jack Oak Quercus x jackiana (alba/bicolor) Pelham Bay Park, NY Danielson
26.5' 8.08m Cockspur Hawthorn Crataegus crus-galli Buckhorn Island SP, NY Danielson (there's an MO specimen currently in your exotic list, but this species is native in both NY and MO. Wafer Ash also included in that list is also native rather than exotic- native list includes a taller record)
20.5' 6.25m American Prickly-Ash Zanthoxylum americanum Buckhorn Island SP, NY Danielson

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:59 am

Erik,

Thanks for the update on NYC, and for straightening me out on a couple of trees. When did Jess find the silicicola?

Brian

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by Erik Danielsen » Thu Aug 20, 2020 7:52 pm

Brian, I don't have a date for the Juniper unfortunately. He sent me some data for reference when I was on my way down to coastal GA for a vacation, but it doesn't include the year it was collected.

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tsharp
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by tsharp » Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:56 pm

Brian:
Maryland RH -20
Hemlock 141.3' at Broad Creek Memorial Scout Reservation by Darian Copiz 2-2005

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bbeduhn
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Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by bbeduhn » Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:14 pm

This next group will be based solely on watersheds. I'll start in Georgia with the Chattooga River, which has been well covered by ENTS. I'll focus on the main river with small tributaries included, followed by significant tributaries.

Chattooga River, main corridor, GA & SC (includes Camp Branch)
RHI 10 = 140.47' 42.81m
RHI 5 = 148.38' 45.22m

1. white pine P. strobus 174.2' 53.09m
2. tuliptree L. tulipifera 146.5' 44.65m
3. pignut hickory C. glabra 141.6' 43.16m
4. shortleaf pine P. echinata 141.2' 43.03m
5. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 138.4' 42.18m
6. black locust R. pseudoacacia 137.9' 42.03m
7. sweetgum L. styraciflua 131.9' 40.20m
8. pitch pine P. rigida 131.8' 40.17m
9. N red oak Q. rubra 129.6' 39.50m
10. white basswood T. heterophylla 129.1' 39.35m


East Fork Chattooga River, SC (includes Indian Camp Branch, SC)
RHI 10 = 134.28' 40.92m
RHI 5 = 152.08' 46.35m

1. white pine P. strobus 171.4' 52.24m
2. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 168.9' 51.48m
3. white ash F. americana 148.6' 45.29m
4. Am beech F. grandifolia 136.1' 41.48m
5. pitch pine P. rigida 135.4' 41.27m
6. tuliptree L. tulipifera 134.5' 40.99m
7. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 121.0' 36.88m
8. white oak Q. alba 116.0' 35.35m
9. mockernut hickory Q. alba 107.4' 32.73m
10. black birch B. lenta 103.5' 31.54m


West Fork Chattooga, GA (includes Overflow Creek)
RHI 10 = 132.48' 40.38m
RHI 5 = 144.42' 44.02m

1. white pine P. strobus 166.6' 50.78m
2. pitch pine P. rigida 146.4' 44.62m
3. shortleaf pine P. echinata 144.2' 43.95m
4. Virginia pine P. virginiana 136.0' 41.45m
5. pignut hickory C. glabra 128.9' 39.28m
6. Biltmore ash F. biltmoreana 125.2' 38.16m
7. chestnut oak Q. montana 120.9' 36.85m
8. white oak Q. alba 120.8' 36.82m
8. mockernut hickory C. alba 120.8' 36.82m
10. N red oak Q. rubra 114.9' 35.01m


Cliff Creek, GA
RHI 10 = 140.80' 42.91m
RHI 5 = 152.38' 46.44m

1. white pine P. strobus 185.8' 56.63m
2. pignut hickory C. glabra 149.3'
2. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 149.3'
4. tuliptree L. tulipifera 141.1' 43.00m
5. N red oak Q. rubra 136.4' 41.57m
6. pitch pine P. rigida 136.0' 41.45m
7. shortleaf pine P. echinata 135.7' 41.36m
8. mockernut hickory C. alba 127.3' 38.80m
9. scarlet oak Q. coccinea 124.5' 37.94m
10. white oak Q. alba 122.4' 37.30m


Camp Creek, GA
RHI 10 = 136.10' 41.48m
RHI 5 = 146.04' 44.51m

1. white pine P. strobus 180.4' 54.98m
2. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 144.1' 43.92m
3. tuliptree L. tulipifera 141.7' 43.19m
4. shortleaf pine P. echinata 132.5' 40.38m
5. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 131.5' 40.08m
6. mockernut hickory C. alba 131.0' 39.92m
7. white basswood T. heterophylla 129.1' 39.35m
8. Am beech F. grandifolia 125.8' 38.34m
9. white oak Q. alba 124.0' 37.79m
10. sweetgum L. styraciflua 120.9' 36.85m


Chattooga River Watershed
RHI 5 = 159.82' 48.71m
RHI 10 = 150.01' 45.72m
RHI 15 = 143.97' 43.88m
RHI 20 =138.91' 42.34m

1. white pine P. strobus 185.8' 56.63m Cliff Creek
2. E hemlock Ts. camadensis 168.9' 51.48m East Fork Chattooga
3. pignut hickory C. glabra 149.3' 45.50m Cliff Creek
4. white ash F. americana 148.6' 45.29m East Fork Chattooga
5. tuliptree L. tulipifera 146.5' 44.65m Burrells Ford Rd
6. pitch pine P. rigida 146.4' 44.62m West Fork Chattoga R
7. shortleaf pine P. echinata 144.2' 43.95m West Fork Chattooga
8. black locust R. pseudoacacia 137.9' 42.03m Burrells Ford Rd
9. N red oak Q. rubra 136.4' 41.57m Cliff Creek
10. Am beech F. grandifolia 136.1' 41.48m East Fork Chattooga

11. Virginia pine P. virginiana 136.0' 41.45m West Fork Chattooga R
12. sweetgum L. styraciflua 131.9' 40.20m Camp Branch
13. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 131.5' 40.08m Camp Branch
14. mockernut hickory C. alba 131.0' 39.92m Camp Branch
15. white basswood T. heterophylla 129.1' 39.35m Camp Branch
16. white oak Q. alba 128.6' 39.19m Camp Branch
17. Biltmore ash F. biltmoreana 125.2' 38.16m Overflow Creek
18. scarlet oak Q. coccinea 124.5' 37.94m Cliff Creek
19. chestnut oak Q. montana 120.9' 36.85m Overflow Creek
20. red hickory C. ovalis 119.5' 36.42m Burrells Ford Rd



Tallulah River (includes Tallulah Gorge, Sand Branch, and Tate Branch)
RHI 10 = 148.01' 45.11m
RHI 5 = 156.80' 47.79m

1. white pine P. strobus 172.7' 52.63m Tallulah Gorge
2. sand hickory C. pallida 156.9' 47.82m Sand Branch
3. tuliptree L. tulipifera 156.8' 47.79m Sand Branch
4. N red oak Q. rubra 149.1' 45.44m Sand Branch
5. chestnut oak Q. montana 148.5' 45.26m Sand Branch
6. pignut hickory C. glabra 144.2' 43.95m Sand Branch
7. mockernut hickory C. alba 141.6' 43.16m Sand Branch
8. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 137.9' 42.03m Sand Branch
9. black cherry P. serotina 137.5' 41.91m Tate Branch
10. sycamore P. occidentalis 134.9' 41.11m Tallulah Gorge



Tugaloo River (includes Panther Branch and Davidson Creek)
The Tugaloo River also comprises the Tallulah and the Chattooga Rivers. There will be a Tugaloo composite as well.
RHI 10 = 144.0' 43.90m
RHI 5 = 150.6' 45.90m

1. white pine P. strobus 163.3' 49.77m Panther
2. tuliptree L. tulipifera 157.6' 48.03m Panther
3. sweetgum L. styraciflua 145.6' 44.37m Panther
4. pignut hickory C. glabra 144.2' 43.95m Panther
5. N red oak Q. rubra 142.3' 43.37m Panther
6. white oak Q. alba 140.0' 42.67m Panther
7. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 138.4' 42.18m Panther
8. Biltmore ash F. biltmoreana 138.3' 42.15m Panther
9. white basswood T. heterophylla 136.4' 41.57m Panther
10. mockernut hickory C. alba 134.3' 40.93 Davidson



Tugaloo Composite (Chattooga, Tallulah, and Tugaloo Rivers)
RHI 20 = 147.13' 44.84m
RHI 10 = 155.67' 47.44m
RHI 5 = 163.70' 49.89m

1. white pine P. strobus 185.8' 56.63m Chattooga Cliff Creek
2. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 168.9' 51.48m Chattooga East Fork
3. tuliptree L. tulipifera 157.6' 48.03m Tugaloo Panther
4. sand hickory C. pallida 156.9' 47.82m Tallulah Sand
5. pignut hickory C. glabra 149.3' 45.50m Chattooga Cliff
6. N red oak Q. rubra 149.1' 45.44m Tallulah Sand
7. white ash F. americana 148.6' 45.29m Chattooga East Fork
8. chestnut oak Q. montana 148.5' 45.26m Tallulah Sand
9. pitch pine P. rigida 146.4' 44.62m Chattooga West Fork
10. sweetgum L. styraciflua 145.6' 44.37m Tugaloo Panther

11. shortleaf pine P. echinata 144.2' 43.95m Chattooga West Fork
12. mockernut hickory C. alba 141.6' 43.16m Tallulah Sand
13. white oak Q. alba 140.0' 42.67m Tugaloo Panther
14. Biltmore ash Q. biltmoreana 138.3' 42.15m Tugaloo Panther
15. black locust R. pseudoacacia 137.9' 42.03m Chattooga
15. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 137.9' 42.03m Tallulah Sand
17. black cherry P. serotina 137.5' 41.91m Tallulah Tate
18. white basswood T. heterophylla 136.4' 41.57m Tugaloo Panther
19. Am beech F. grandifolia 136.1' 41.48m Chattooga East Fork
20. Virginia pine P. virginiana 136.0' 41.45m Chattooga West Fork


Lake Keowee composite (excluding Lake Jocassee) SC
RHI 5 = 164.14' 50.03m
RHI 10 = 158.51' 48.31m
RHI 20 = 150.34' 45.82m

1. tuliptree L. tulipifera 177.1' 53.98m
2. red hickory C. ovalis 168.2' 51.26m Oconee R
3. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 166.3' 50.68m Oconee R
4. N red oak Q. rubra 155.4' 47.36m Oconee
5. mockernut hickory C. alba 153.7' 46.84m Oconee R
6. chestnut oak Q. monrana 153.6' 46.81m Oconee R
7. Biltmore ash F. biltmoreana 153.4' 46.81m Eastatoe
7. black locust R. pseudoacacia 153.4' 46.81m Eastatoe
9. pignut hickory C. glabra 152.6' 46.57m Eastatoe
10. sweetgum L. styraciflua 151.4' 46.14m Oconee

11. white ash F. americana 148.7' 45.32m Oconee
12. white oak Q. alba 148.6' 45.29m Oconee R
13. shortleaf pine P. echinata 148.5' 45.26m Oconee R2
14. black oak Q. velutina 145.2' 44.25m Oconee R
15. red elm (slippery) U. rubra 142.5' 43.43m Oconee R
16. cucumbertree M. acuminata 139.9' 42.64m Eastatoe
17. E hemlock Rs. canadensis 138.6' 42.24m Eastatoe
18. white basswood T. heterophylla 137.9' 42.03m Eastatoe
19. white pine P. strobus 137.1' 41.78m Eastatoe
20. black walnur J. nigra 134.7' 41.05m Oconee

Jocassee Lake composite, SC
RHI 10 = 151.14' 46.06m
RHI 5 = 158.78' 48.39m

1. tuliptree L. tulipifera 177.6' 54.13m Bearcamp
2. white pine P. strobus 163.7' 49.89m Bearcamp
3. N red oak Q. rubra 154.7' 47.15m Whitewater
4. cucumbertree M. acuminata 149.0' 45.41' Laurel
5. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 148.9' 45.38' Laurel
6. sweetgum L. styraciflua 146.7' 44.71' Laurel
7. black locust R, pseudoacacia 146.0' 44.50m Laurel
8. white oak Q. alba 145.2' 44.25m Whitewater
9. pignut hickory C. glabra 140.0' 42.67m Laurel
10. mockernut hickory C. alba 139.6' 42.55m Laurel


Savannah River mega-composite
RHI 5 = 173.26' 52.81m
RHI 10 = 163.93' 49.96m
RHI 20 = 156.28 47.63m

1. white pine P. strobus 185.8' 56.63m Chattooga
2. tuliptree L. tulipifera 177.1' 53.98m Keowee
3. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 168.9' 51.48m Chattooga
4. red hickory C. ovalis 168.2' 51.26m Keowee R
5. bitternut hickory C. cordiformis 166.3' 50.68m Keowee R
6. sand hickory C. pallida 156.9' 47.82m Tallulah
7. N red oak Q. rubra 155.4' 47.36m Keowee
8. mockernut hickory C. alba 153.7' 46.84m Keowee R
9. chestnut oak Q. montana 153.6' 46.81m Keowee R
10. Biltmore ash F. biltmoreana 153.4' 46.75m Keowee

11. black locust R. pseudoacacia 153.4' 46.75m Keowee
12. pignut hickory C. glabra 152.6' 46.57m Keowee
13. sweetgum L. styraciflua 151.4' 46.14m Keowee
14. cucumbertree M. acuminata 149.0' 45.41m Jocassee
15. white ash F. americana 148.7' 45.50m Keowee
15. white oak Q. alba 148.6' 45.50m Keowee R
17. shortleaf pine P. echinata 148.5' 45.26m Keowee R2
18. pitch pine P. rigida 146.4' 44.62m Chattooga R
19. black oak Q. velutina 145.2' 44.25m Keowee R
20. red elm (slippery) U. rubra 142.5' 43.43m Keowee R


Conasauga (includes Cohutta Wilderness and Sumac Creek)
RHI 10 = 136.52' 41.61m
RHI 5 = 144.76' 44.12m


1. tuliptree L. tulipifera 151.2' 46.08m Cohutta
2. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 149.0' 45.41m Cohutta
3. white pine P. strobus 145.1' 44.22m Cohutta
4. pignut hickory C. glabra 140.7' 42.88m Cohutta
5. black cherry P. serotina 137.8' 42.00m Cohutta
6. N red oak Q rubra 132.4' 40.35m Cohutta
7. cucumbertree M. acuminata 129.1' 39.35m Cohutta
8. white ash F. americana 128.0' 39.01m Cohutta
9. shagbark hickory C. ovata 127.7' Sumac
10. sycamore P. occidentalis 124.2' 37.85m


Upper Chattahoochee (includes Spoilcane Creek and Island Ford)
RHI 10 = 141.68' 43.18m
RHI 5 = 149.36' 45.52m

1. white pine P. strobus 171.2' 52.18m Spoilcane
2. tuliptree L. tulipifera 150.5' 45.87m Spoilcane
3. sycamore P. occidentalis 144.3' 43.98m Spoilcane
4. loblolly pine P. taeda 141.4' 43.09m Island Ford
5. E hemlock Ts. canadensis 139.4' 42.49m Spoilcane
6. mockernut hickory C. alba 136.2' 41.51m Spoilcane
7. pignut hickory C. glabra 134.6' 41.02m Spoilcane
8. N red oak Q. rubra 133.4' 40.60m Spoilcane
9. black locust R. pseudoacacia 132.9' 40.50m Spoilcane
9. chestnut oak Q. montana 132.9' 40.50m Spoilcane


Oconee (includes Rock Creek)
RHI 10 = 129.87' 39.58m
RHI 5 = 135.52' 41.30'

1. cherrybark oak Q. pagoda 149.9' 45.69m
2. E cottonwood P. deltoides 134.9' 41.11m
3. tuliptree L. tulipifera 131.2' 39.99m
4. Shumard oak Q. shumardii 131.1' 39.96m
5. loblolly pine P. taeda 130.5' 39.77m
6. sycamore P. occidentalis 129.9' 39.59m
7. willow oak Q. phellos 127.8' 38.95m
8. green ash F. pennsylvanica 126.1' 38.43m
9. water oak Q. nigra 119.5' 36.42m
10. sugarberry C. occidentalis 117.8' 35.90m


Toccoa (includes Cooper Creek)
RHI 5 = 141.82' 43.22m

1. white pine P. strobus 168.9' 51.48m
2. tuliptree L. tulipifera 157.2' 47.91m
3. mockernut hickory C. alba 132.5' 40.38m
4. white oak Q. alba 125.4' 38.22
5. black oak Q. velutina 125.1' 38.13m


Nottely (includes Sosebee Cove)
RHI 5 = 134.88' 41.11m

1. tuliptree L. rulipifera 165.9' 50.56m
2. yellow buckeye B. allegheniensis 137.1' 41.78m
3. N red oak Q. rubra 130.2' 39.68m
4. white basswood T. heterophylla 121.3' 36.97m
5. black cherry P. serotina 119.9' 36.54m
Last edited by bbeduhn on Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:43 am, edited 4 times in total.

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dbhguru
Posts: 4550
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 pm

Re: Rucker Comparisons

Post by dbhguru » Fri Sep 04, 2020 9:14 am

Brian,

These lists are ground-breaking. You seem to be on steroids these days. Can you send some of them up my way?

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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