The Senator is dead

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#1)  The Senator is dead

Postby Shorea » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:30 am

It stood for 3500 years until some drug using moron from this 21st century went and burned it down.

Did anyone know of this?
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Ancient-Cy ... 64753.html
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#2)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby mdvaden » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:53 am

Shorea wrote:It stood for 3500 years until some drug using moron from this 21st century went and burned it down.

Did anyone know of this?
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Ancient-Cy ... 64753.html


If you read the article all the way to it's March 2012 publish date and remember this is an ENTS forum, the answer to  that question should be evident. If you use the forums search tools, you will probably find an old conversation from several years ago.
M. D. Vaden of Oregon = http://www.mdvaden.com

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#3)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby Shorea » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:15 am

I see, the date was not displayed properly in my browser, on mobile phone (which is what I was on).

At any rate, the threats to big historical trees will always increase as human population keeps increasing. Thus, the risk "quotient" goes up as time goes on.

What a shame.
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#4)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby mdvaden » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:34 pm

Shorea wrote:I see, the date was not displayed properly in my browser, on mobile phone (which is what I was on).

At any rate, the threats to big historical trees will always increase as human population keeps increasing. Thus, the risk "quotient" goes up as time goes on.

What a shame.


I prefer for ancient trees to remain and grow as long as possible, but I find the burning of 40,000 acres near Oregon's Eagle Creek area leaps and bounds worse. Apparently started by fireworks. Similar cause. The old tree was a loss, the Oregon area is a devastation. Either one would be nice to prevent.
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#5)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby Shorea » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:23 am

I was under the impression that the Senator was still alive, but the last time I saw/read about the tree was a long time ago, perhaps 2009-2010, and I wasn't aware that in the intervening years, some moron would go and kill it. But in the intervening years, so has a lot of things changed in the world, for the worse.
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#6)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby jamesrobertsmith » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:59 am

I would go see the Senator every time I was in that part of Florida. The first time I saw the tree I was a kid. Around 1967 or so, I think.  I was ten years old. Back then what they did to protect the tree was to have an apron of chain like around the trunk. In retrospect, this is probably the way they should have kept it. It would have made it very hard for that crank-addled whore to get inside the hollow and set it on fire.

For a while there were photos of that slut on the Internet. She was a whore. Seriously. A whore. She'd rent out that space so that she could buy more meth.

Here's a blog post I wrote in 2012.

https://tilthelasthemlockdies.blogspot. ... hance.html
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#7)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby Will Blozan » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:37 am

I was fortunate to have been able to visit the tree and take volume measurements. However, there is no way it was as old as claimed. One of my former employees climbed it and installed a lightening protection system inside the trunk. Hollow to the ground.
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#8)  Re: The Senator is dead

Postby dbhguru » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:22 pm

Ents,

  Will is spot on. Estimates of ages for exceptionally large trees are often inflated by people making estimates on the basis of size. This is a slippery slope and more so for some species than others. The oldest accurately dated bald cypresses are on the order of 1,500 to 1,600 years old. I could image the Senator to be 1,000 years old, and maybe 1,500, but not 3,500.

  I've been trying to develop my eye for judge age in white pines in New England based on bark texture and trunk, limb, and crown form. Young trees stand out from old ones, but the in-betweens are rough to age date by eye. Here is a rough count of rings on a white pine in MTSF.

               
                       
Tree Rings.png
                                       
               


  Giving the pine a couple or three years to the base and a couple of years to the center ring of the pith, my estimate is  between 105 and 110 years. This is a pine growing in a slightly younger stand within Mohawk. But other trees in the vicinity have been ring counted to 125 to 130 years. Other stands have trees that range between 140 and 160 years, and one stand has trees to close to 200 years. A couple of younger stands are between 70 and 80 years old. A few old growth specimens upon Todd Mountain are likely around 250 years of age. Lots to look at.

  So, how well can I distinguish these age groups by visual inspection? Not that well. For one thing, pines in close proximity can have significantly different growth rates. They can't be treated like a uniformly aged stand. I'm still trying to sort the differences out.

  One lesson I've repeatedly learned is the standard rules of thumb aren't of much help in judging age or growth. According to an old UMASS friend, pines in the area where this tree came from should be down to a growth rate of 5 or 6 inches per year. However, many of the Mohawk pines are maintaing growth rates of 8 to 14 inches per year. The Jake Swamp pine is still averaging 10 to 12 inches per year. That is how it has made it to 175 feet.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder and Executive Director
Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest

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