A hemlock harangue!

Native Tree Society Tree Measuring Guidelines and related materials.

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

#1)  A hemlock harangue!

Postby Don » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:46 pm

Without a really insightful narrative of how this happened, I'm inclined to fall back on good photo-chopping technique...the challenge? How do we measure it, by existing, or current measuring guidelines, and is it single-stem or multi-stemmed?
[courtesy of Ed Frank - Facebook NTS Group, photo credit to GSMNP via Richard Barry]
               
                       
GSMNP hemlock.jpg
                       
Great Smoky Mtn. National Park hemlock
               
               
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org

For this message the author Don has received Likes - 2:
bbeduhn, jamesrobertsmith
User avatar
Don
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Has Liked: 67 times
Has Been Liked: 225 times
Print view this post

#2)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby Rand » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:44 pm

I'll stick my neck out.  It looks like two separate trees that grew up together.  A side limb of the right hand tree collided with and fused with the tree on the left.  Meanwhile the tree on the left (or maybe the tree in the background) outgrows and overtops the tree on the right .  The top of the right hand tree dies and rots away, leaving its fused limb behind.

For this message the author Rand has received Likes :
bbeduhn
User avatar
Rand
 
Posts: 1122
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:25 pm
Location: Ohio
Has Liked: 262 times
Has Been Liked: 368 times
Print view this post

#3)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby Don » Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:57 pm

A better guess than mine!
I can draw up pith lines only so far...then I just can't fashion what the cross-section of the two going into one, say in 12  one inch thick pie slices going from initial contact of the two, as they appear to "...go into one".
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org
User avatar
Don
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Has Liked: 67 times
Has Been Liked: 225 times
Print view this post

#4)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby mdvaden » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:40 am

I know how I'd measure it. And I'd make up a special rule just for it.

But I'd follow the center of the right trunk and the left trunk, each one, up the middle for 4.5 feet, even if it meant bending the corner rather than just going straight up 4.5 ft. above grade. It would be 4.5 feet along the length of each trunk. Then I'd measure the circumference of each one at that point and combine the square inches of cross section together.
M. D. Vaden of Oregon = http://www.mdvaden.com

200 Pages - Coast Redwoods - http://www.mdvaden.com/grove_of_titans.shtml

Portraits & Weddings - http://www.vadenphotography.com
User avatar
mdvaden
 
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:30 pm
Location: Oregon
Has Liked: 7 times
Has Been Liked: 223 times
Print view this post

#5)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby Don » Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:56 pm

So, Will/Mario/Rand/others-
I still can't picture what's going on with that hemlock, where I've delineated a red line in image attached.
I can imagine them as two separate nesting pairs of concentric rings, each around a central pith, having grown together, and then with the passing of years and continued proximity, filling in the void between them, until subsequently they are enclosed growing as two stems in parallel.

Can you draw or fully describe what you perceive the cross-section taken at the redline would look like, specifically in terms of the annual rings and pith?

               
                       
Screen Shot 2016-06-07 at 6.44.23 PM.png
                       
[courtesy of Ed Frank - Facebook NTS Group, photo credit to GSMNP via Richard Barry]
               
               
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org
User avatar
Don
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Has Liked: 67 times
Has Been Liked: 225 times
Print view this post

#6)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby Joe » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:51 am

I suggest it was a single tree. The top broke or was cut. Below that level, it had only 2 living branches- which then shot up and fused. I doubt 2 separate trees could fuse that way- but I don't know for sure. I'd be surprised if it could happen.
Joe
User avatar
Joe
 
Posts: 1750
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 9:26 am
Location: Massachusetts
Has Liked: 0 times
Has Been Liked: 171 times
Print view this post

#7)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby mdvaden » Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:14 am

Joe wrote:I suggest it was a single tree. The top broke or was cut. Below that level, it had only 2 living branches- which then shot up and fused. I doubt 2 separate trees could fuse that way- but I don't know for sure. I'd be surprised if it could happen.
Joe


The could have rubbed and fused prior to the breakage. I've seen variations of merged trunks in the past but this is the only one of this sort of double branch sort. They are pretty rare out this way.

Wherever the red line is, that's as good as any suggestion probably.

Reminds me of this, but this certainly had to be two trees, not two branches.
Attachments
IM001323.JPG
M. D. Vaden of Oregon = http://www.mdvaden.com

200 Pages - Coast Redwoods - http://www.mdvaden.com/grove_of_titans.shtml

Portraits & Weddings - http://www.vadenphotography.com

For this message the author mdvaden has received Likes :
bbeduhn
User avatar
mdvaden
 
Posts: 760
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:30 pm
Location: Oregon
Has Liked: 7 times
Has Been Liked: 223 times
Print view this post

#8)  Re: A hemlock harangue!

Postby Don » Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:01 pm

Mario-
My intent by placing a red line, wasn't to suggest where one should measure the dbh/cbh...I was trying to elicit your idea of what the cross-section would look like at that location...more to the point, would it be to sets of pith/nested concentric annual rings, squashed together due to their increasing proximity?  Or?
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
Restoration Forester (Retired)
Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

BJCP Apprentice Beer Judge

View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org
User avatar
Don
 
Posts: 1443
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 am
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Has Liked: 67 times
Has Been Liked: 225 times
Print view this post


Return to Tree Measuring Guidelines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest