Facebook/ Information Gathering

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Rand
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Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by Rand » Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:35 pm

Ed,

It's kinda alarming just how closely facebook resembles the government's Total Information Awareness idea. It's like your life, totally instrumented and logged.

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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Facebook Insights March 5, 2012

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:36 pm

Rand wrote:It's kinda alarming just how closely facebook resembles the government's Total Information Awareness idea. It's like your life, totally instrumented and logged.
I have only reluctantly established a personal Facebook page within the last year. But I have all of the privacy settings maximized (I think; I hope), I don't fill out any of the personal profile information, and I rarely approve friend requests (no offense to anyone who has sent me one). Most of my Facebook friends (and there aren't many) are direct family and people I know and have met in person. I never accept any of those "apps" that automatically get access to all of your Facebook activities.

It may not have begun that way, but Facebook has quite transparently morphed into a tool of the "intelligence" and "law enforcement" community in their effort to build vast and exhaustive databases of P.I.I. and related information about all ordinary citizens. As is the trend in general in today's society. And it doesn't have a whit to do with "fighting terrorism."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIGdWsxHJlM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShQPF-KywXs

Funny (but sadly not far from the truth):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqggW08BWO0
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

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PAwildernessadvocate
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by PAwildernessadvocate » Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:09 pm

Or as Kurt Cobain once sang: "just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you."
"There is no better way to save biodiversity than by preserving habitat, and no better habitat, species for species, than wilderness." --Edward O. Wilson

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Rand
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Re: Facebook Insights March 5, 2012

Post by Rand » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:49 am

PAwildernessadvocate wrote:Or as Kurt Cobain once sang: "just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you."
I take some comfort in knowing I'm not worth the trouble.

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edfrank
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Re: Facebook Insights March 5, 2012

Post by edfrank » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:26 pm

The discussion of government spying is getting pretty off track from trees, but I couldn't resist posting this song for what its worth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5M_Ttstbgs

Paranoia strikes deep,
Into your life it will creep.

.
"I love science and it pains me to think that so many are terrified of the subject or feel that choosing science means you cannot also choose compassion, or the arts, or be awe by nature. Science is not meant to cure us of mystery, but to reinvent and revigorate it." by Robert M. Sapolsky

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:18 pm

Rand wrote:
PAwildernessadvocate wrote:Or as Kurt Cobain once sang: "just because you're paranoid, don't mean they're not after you."
I take some comfort in knowing I'm not worth the trouble.
Nice one Rand, my sentiments exactly. Back n the 70's I always thought it was funny how many people that I knew in the anti-nuke movement claimed to have FBI following them around. Certainly there was surveillance, witetaps, undercover informants etc. but there were also delusions of significance on the part of some folks.

Facebook certainly makes it easier to collect intelligence on targeted individuals, anyone who has reason to be concerned about that would have to be incredibly naive to think otherwise.

All facebook wants to do is sell targeted advertising, which I find a nuisance but not personally threatening. They're a business, weird how people expect everything to be free of charge.

Agree with PA's strategy of minimal profile info, accept no fb apps, be critical about who you except friend requests from.

FB is just another tool, use it, don't let it use you.
-AJ

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Rand
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by Rand » Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:37 pm

AndrewJoslin wrote: All facebook wants to do is sell targeted advertising, which I find a nuisance but not personally threatening. They're a business, weird how people expect everything to be free of charge.

Agree with PA's strategy of minimal profile info, accept no fb apps, be critical about who you except friend requests from.

FB is just another tool, use it, don't let it use you.
-AJ
Well, sure. But it's shear breadth is somewhat creepifying (Hi, I'm Ed from Upyur Wahzoo Inc. and I understand you better than you probably understand yourself. Don't believe me? Let me show you the graphs and then we'll talk business. Uh... severe information asymmetry is fundamentally a poor position from which to negotiate)

I saw an interesting essay in passing about ten years ago, about how the rise of large cities and mass entertainment made anonymity something of a novel concept. In past times people lived in small hunter gatherer groups or pastoral villages of 100-200 people. Here everyone knew everyone else and they entertained themselves with gossip instead of soap operas. A mobile society, where most of the population lived in large cities, made it possible to get lost in the crowd. The computational power of computers and the connectivity of the internet is sending us all back to the village.

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:40 pm

Rand wrote:Well, sure. But it's shear breadth is somewhat creepifying (Hi, I'm Ed from Upyur Wahzoo Inc. and I understand you better than you probably understand yourself. Don't believe me? Let me show you the graphs and then we'll talk business. Uh... severe information asymmetry is fundamentally a poor position from which to negotiate)
Definitely. I'm still willing to joust with fb for now. Google scares me more, pretty much all enveloping scheme to take over the planet. My working theory is national governments will become superfluous, Google, fb and/or whatever other "friendly" monster comes along will be in charge. It's a different implementation of the Orwellian scheme that was expected by the futurists. No one expected the population to collaborate so enthusiastically with the overseers ;-)
-AJ

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AndrewJoslin
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by AndrewJoslin » Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:46 pm

Rand wrote:The computational power of computers and the connectivity of the internet is sending us all back to the village.
That's the good part, since you can belong to a several different villages, have the best of both worlds. Question is when the going gets rough will your village rally behind you the way they might in a physical village? Or will you be staring at affirmative slogans, cute cat photos and targeted ads as your ship goes down?
-AJ

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Rand
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Re: Facebook/ Information Gathering

Post by Rand » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:48 pm

BTW My apologies to Ed Frank. There used to be a different individual in my life who went by 'Ed' and whose smarmy, manipulatively bullying behavior I had in mind when I wrote this:
AndrewJoslin wrote:
Rand wrote:Well, sure. But it's shear breadth is somewhat creepifying (Hi, I'm Ed from Upyur Wahzoo Inc. and I understand you better than you probably understand yourself. Don't believe me? Let me show you the graphs and then we'll talk business. Uh... severe information asymmetry is fundamentally a poor position from which to negotiate)
Definitely. I'm still willing to joust with fb for now. Google scares me more, pretty much all enveloping scheme to take over the planet. My working theory is national governments will become superfluous, Google, fb and/or whatever other "friendly" monster comes along will be in charge. It's a different implementation of the Orwellian scheme that was expected by the futurists. No one expected the population to collaborate so enthusiastically with the overseers ;-)
-AJ
I don't know about FB or Google really wielding power. But once they build up a profile or your behavior, I do see that information being of much interest to Insurance co and banks. AKA any company having a stake in your risk profile. I mean gee, how much of your lifestyle can be figured out by tracking your face through pictures posted online or following you around to your favorite restaurants using foursquare. They could figure out your diet and what risky activities you participate in and assigns your health/life insurance premiums accordingly. That would be brutally honest I suppose but creepily invasive too.
AndrewJoslin wrote:
Rand wrote:The computational power of computers and the connectivity of the internet is sending us all back to the village.
That's the good part, since you can belong to a several different villages, have the best of both worlds. Question is when the going gets rough will your village rally behind you the way they might in a physical village? Or will you be staring at affirmative slogans, cute cat photos and targeted ads as your ship goes down?
-AJ
I have my doubts. Fundamentally virtual communities let us have our cake and eat it too in the sense we only deal with them at our convenience and when we have a common interest, and only that common interest. Going out of our way to help someone is fundamentally inconvenient and we're kinda out of practice. James H. Kunstler points this out as one of the side affects of the loss of day to day public space inherent in the car orientated design of suburbia.

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