Potential tall trees?

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#11)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby gnmcmartin » Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:53 pm

NTS folks:

  I have made reference in this BBS to the work done on NS at SUNY Syracuse a number of years ago under the direction of the then Dean of Research, Edwin White. They produced a series of 4 research studies, including the two I have mentioned here before, the growth curves study, and the site factors study.  There were two others that I did not study so carefully. If memory serves me now, one was a volume growth study, comparing NS to red pine, and another on the form of the trunks.

  Professor White, after those were completed, wrote an article touting all the merits of NS as a reforestation species.  If any one is interested,
The College of Environmental Science and Forestry, would certainly, I believe, be happy to send anyone interested, a copy of all of these studies/articles.

  One of the advantages of NS over some of the alternatives is the longer sustained growth of NS.  But, because white pine is not a good choice in central NY because of the severe weevil problem, no comparisons were made to white pine.

  One reason why NS is not planted in many areas where conifer plantings are done for reforestation, is the  prejudice against "exotic" species. In MD it is not allowed in any cost-share reforestation project, except by special application, and then only up to 10%. But, NS is not "invasive," as Bob points out, although it does reproduce naturally in many areas.

 And, as Joe points out, it is suitable for longer rotations with successive cutting cycles, minimizing the need for frequent costly replanting, as is required with red pine.

  As for the wonderfully beautiful stand in the picture posted by Lucas--this IS stunningly beautiful.  I believe with intensive management here in the US, in the most favorable locations and sites, and a suitable strain, something close to this is possible here. I worked with DR. John Genys, of the U of MD on a provenance trial, and had lengthy conversations with him about NS both here and in Europe--he was from Lithuania, and visited back frequently--and he strongly believed that NS could grow just as well here as in Europe, in the right climates , the best strains, and on the best sites.

  I am very sorry that the stand near Glady, WV that I talked about in one of my posts quite some time ago, was cut.  That stand was already stunning, even at an age of just slightly over 60 years, and was unthinned and unpruned. That stand should have been managed, and preserved as a seed source for more plantings.  One of the best "markers" for a specific strain of NS is the cones, and those from trees in that stand were unlike any others I have seen anywhere. There may be information of the source for the seed used for that stand buried somewhere in the archives of the Forest Service.  I believe the stand was planted as a part of the CCC reforestation projects, and I trust the records are still tucked away somewhere. I am a bit puzzled as to why this stand is of a different strain than any other I have seen.  I understand that the bulk of the CCC NS plantings were done with seed from the Black forest in Germany.  But this one was different.

  --Gaines
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#12)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Lucas » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:30 pm

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/call-to-wild-text

The full article with important points on how trees and nature makes us healthier.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
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#13)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Lucas » Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:34 pm

dbhguru wrote:Joe,

 We agree. Norway spruce is a great species. I've never understood why it has not found more favor as a timber tree in the Northeast. It makes the grade as a landscape choice. You see them everywhere, and it seems to like our climate. And it doesn't become an invasive.

Bob


A forester here told me it is very susceptible to white pine weevil. It kills the leader and the tree forks retarding growth. I saw this myself on the Norway spruce trees here. He said they are working hard to find a fix as it grows way faster than natives.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
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#14)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Joe » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:00 pm

Lucas wrote:
dbhguru wrote:Joe,

 We agree. Norway spruce is a great species. I've never understood why it has not found more favor as a timber tree in the Northeast. It makes the grade as a landscape choice. You see them everywhere, and it seems to like our climate. And it doesn't become an invasive.

Bob


A forester here told me it is very susceptible to white pine weevil. It kills the leader and the tree forks retarding growth. I saw this myself on the Norway spruce trees here. He said they are working hard to find a fix as it grows way faster than natives.


I've never seen a weeviled NS. Maybe for some reason this isn't a problem in western Mass.
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#15)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby dbhguru » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:43 pm

Joe,

 I agree. I have never seen a weeviled Norway spruce in Mass either. Strange.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
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Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
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#16)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Don » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:43 pm

The subtle warming that began here in ALaska in the 1980's has been seen as the cause of the spruce bark beetle outbreak that decimated spruces in South central Alaska.  It just took a few degrees warmer for a few weeks longer...
Don Bertolette - President/Moderator, WNTS BBS
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Science Center
Grand Canyon National Park

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View my Alaska Big Tree List Webpage at:
http://www.akbigtreelist.org
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#17)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Lucas » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:49 pm

Lucas wrote:http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2016/01/call-to-wild-text

The full article with important points on how trees and nature makes us healthier.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/02/160217113308.htm

repeats the  more time outside needed as reflected in the first post..
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
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#18)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Joe » Sat Feb 20, 2016 8:13 am

Lucas, that last link was for an article, "Half the world to be short-sighted by 2050"- is that the one you meant to give?

Anyway, as for nature making us healthier- I almost always feel super when I'm in the forests doing forestry work- especially when marking trees for a silvicultural project- when doing so, I feel like I'm 20 years old. When doing anything else, I feel like the age I am- 66- with a fair amount of arthritis.
Joe

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#19)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Lucas » Fri Mar 04, 2016 12:59 pm

Joe wrote:Lucas, that last link was for an article, "Half the world to be short-sighted by 2050"- is that the one you meant to give?


Yes, it supported the Nat Geo info.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
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#20)  Re: Potential tall trees?

Postby Lucas » Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:02 pm

I've never seen a weeviled NS. Maybe for some reason this isn't a problem in western Mass.
Joe


http://www.cfanb.ca/uploads//Website_As ... seases.pdf

https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=ch ... +weevil%22

"Although it occurs naturally in our forests, in eastern Canada, it is considered to be the most serious pest of white pine, jack pine and Norway spruce plantations."

I looked into this further and the lit claims it is a serious issue for norway spruce. I see trees here that have been hit. It is odd that is not so in MA. ME sites it as a problem.
We travel the Milky way together, trees and men. - John Muir
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