Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

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George Fieo
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by George Fieo » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:50 pm

BeeE,

Welcome to the society. I made a short visit to the preserve back on 2/18/2017. I do recall seeing the red oak, tulip, and the large beech, from a distance and did some quick scanning of the canopy. Respectable heights but not quite what I was looking for. I was not there to measure trees although I did measure one. I take my measuring gear with me whenever I’m in the woods. The tree I measured is an 8.3’ x 146.3’ pignut hickory and is the current state height champion. This is the first I’ve reported on this tree. I encourage you to keep documenting the trees at state line and give us a Rucker Height 10 Index for the preserve and perhaps update the hickory. The hickory can be seen on the north side of the southern trail. If this tree fell it’s canopy could end up being in Delaware. I’ve attached some photos of it to help identify. It forks lower than the surrounding trees. Also, in my opinion, the site is mature second growth rather than old growth. Keep up the good work.

George

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George Fieo
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by George Fieo » Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:11 am

All,

I tried to upload the photos from my iPhone but can’t. The files are there but I can’t do anything with it. If anyone can help I’ll upload them right away. Thanks.

George

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BeeEnvironment2020
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by BeeEnvironment2020 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 10:45 am

Hi George,
Thanks very much!
That Pignut Hickory you mention must be quite amazing!
I hope it is still standing, because just last year there was a EF1 Tornado (Rare for this area) that touched down just south of this preserve in Ashland DE. Winds reached up to 105 miles per hour in the general area, and thousands of trees fell just south. Along with the winds, 1 inch of rain fell in 5 minutes, which happens in about 1/1000 years according to the weather service (over 4-5 inches of rain total from the storm in only 30-40 minutes).
Anyhow, hopefully it is still standing.

I get the chance to head to Stateline once every few weeks, but because I always have my family with me, I have limited time for tree measuring, unfortunately.
I have not yet traveled deeply into the southern portion of the forest at Stateline yet, but it likely does have some tall trees. A rucker 10 height index would be quite fascinating and interesting to do. I will keep that in mind when I head to Stateline again.
The nearby Marshall Millhouse Preserve, just west of Stateline, likely has some tall trees, but I have not been there for a while.

For the photo's issue, maybe a option is that if you have a computer, send the photos to an email and download them from the computer. Then go to this topic and upload them?

If you are unable to use a computer, maybe send the photos to my email if you want (edumailha @ gmail.com), and then I can download them and put them into this discussion?

Also, just wondering, have you measured some of the trees at Alapocas State Park in Delaware, right near Wilmington?
Mark Graham did a LiDAR analysis from 2008, and found two 170' trees, and four 160' trees that could very well be 170' by now. Check out http://ents-bbs.org/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=8803 if you have not already, for maps and coordinates of the tallest trees.

Anyway, thanks and have a good day,
Best Regards,
BeeE.

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ElijahW
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by ElijahW » Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:01 pm

Bee,

It’s good to hear that you’re out there making reliable measurements. I remember using the “stick” method of height measurement (promoted at the time by American Forests) on the Norway Spruces and Red Pines in our yard when I was a teenager. I didn’t buy a laser until my late twenties, and it was a revelation to see just how far off my old guesses had been. I hope you get a lot of use out of the laser Erik sent you.

George,

I’ve been unable to upload photos from my iPhone, as well. What works for me is, as Bee suggested, to email them to myself (while decreasing the file size) and post them using my Windows laptop. I think the file size is the problem, but I don’t know for sure. This has resulted in some poor quality photos from me, but it’s better than nothing.

Elijah

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BeeEnvironment2020
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by BeeEnvironment2020 » Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:13 pm

Hi Elijah,
Yeah, it was also a revelation for me as well when I first compared my stick/clinometer measurements with the laser rangefinder! A white pine, Pinus Strobus, in my backyard I estimated to be 140' was actually 94' 10". It has given me a whole new perspective on heights of trees!

Click on image to see its original size
Interestingly, last year, I measured this White Pine with a balloon and string as an experiment (I would have a family member stand far away from the tree and tell me when the balloon was the same height as the top of the tree) and surprisingly, I measured the string and got 96.5 feet for the height! Because the wind was blowing ever so slightly up at the top of the tree, the string was pulled a bit, thus exaggerating the estimate by some 1 and a half feet.
It is interesting to see how close the measurements were with the balloon and the laser-rangefinder. I think the balloon and string method works pretty well for trees standing alone and with a clear top. It is a cheaper alternative, of course, and does not provide the benefits of a laser-rangefinder, however.
Best regards,
BeeE.

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George Fieo
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by George Fieo » Mon Mar 08, 2021 8:48 am

BeeE and Elijah,

Uploading the photos worked although the picture quality has diminished. Thanks.

George

Click on image to see its original size
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BeeEnvironment2020
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by BeeEnvironment2020 » Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:18 am

Hi George,
Thanks for uploading the photos.
Yeah, it is right next to the DE border! I wonder how tall the tulips in that part of the forest area, seeing how that they branch much higher up.

I am looking forward to heading to Stateline this weekend probably, so I will try to visit this area of the woods and report if the Hickory is alive, and how tall it is. I will also measure many new Tulips, beech, and other trees to see the tallest heights and try to publish a rucker height index.
Because I am new to measuring heights of trees in the forest with the laser-rangefinder, I have been having some difficulty finding the exact top of forest-grown trees. I will continue practicing though, to try to get better at it.
Anyhow, hopefully it wont be too hard to see the tops,
Best Regards,
BeeE.

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BeeEnvironment2020
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by BeeEnvironment2020 » Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:30 am

I went to Stateline the other day, and I was able to measure 2 new trees (I was with family, and had very limited time), so I was unable to check the Hickory George mentioned.

I quickly took the girth and heights of:

1. A Quercus Rubra, CBH 10' 5",
height of at least 35.46 meters / 116' 4"
Not really a tall tree, but impressive crown structure for a forest-grown tree. It almost "hangs" or leans over the creek, north of a trail and near a field. See https://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/usa/pennsylvania/chestercounty/25912_statelinewoodspreserve/50677/
for a location of this oak.

2. A Tulip tree, CBH 10' 1"
Height of at least 41.79 meters / 137' 1"
Not a large tulip, but interesting as it shows some evidence of balding up to 2' high. Also appears to be in a healthy condition.
See https://www.monumentaltrees.com/en/usa/pennsylvania/chestercounty/25912_statelinewoodspreserve/50678/ for a location of this tree.

I am hoping that this weekend I will be able to head to Stateline to spend some quality time among the trees and measure them, and try to get to that amazing Pignut Hickory!
Best Regards,
BeeE.

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BeeEnvironment2020
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by BeeEnvironment2020 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:09 pm

Hello ENTS,
I measured a few new trees at Stateline, and I wanted to report on them here for documentation purposes, although they are not very "Surprising" trees.

1. A Tulip Poplar
CBH of 73.75", or 6' 2". Height of at least 127.15 Feet. I was a bit surprised this was not more than 140', as it appears to be very tall compared to many other surrounding trees. It has a height-to-girth ratio of 20.73, which is not bad, even for a forest grown tree.
Tulip tree thinENTS.jpg
Above is a photo of a friend with the tree.
Can anyone guess the height to the first branch?


Also, I found 1 old-looking tree on a small "island" between 2 creeks, and I could not determine the tree species of it. Can any of you determine it?
Here are a few photos:
UnknownTreeStatelineWoodsENTS.jpg
Above is a photo of the bark of the undetermined tree, with a notebook for size comparison.
UnknownTreeStateline3ENTS.jpg
Here is a photo showing the crown of this unknown tree. It appears to be very "raggedy", with many crooked and twisted branches, and much of the bark up to 20' or more balded.

Here is another tree that I found that I am unsure on the Species. It is located on the same little "Island" between the 2 creeks, right next to the tulip, and near the other old, unknown tree. Maybe it is a very old type of oak, as the bark is in very, very deep ridges, and shows some balding, although it is not that tall or large.
Above is a photo of the trunk. Although it bends like a bow, there is little taper to the crown. The bark has very deep ridges, and balding as well.
Above is a photo of the trunk. Although it bends like a bow, there is little taper to the crown. The bark has very deep ridges, and balding as well.
Here is another photo of the trunk. You can see some of the deep ridges, though this photo does a poor job on showing how deep they are:
Very interesting bark. Maybe very old?
Very interesting bark. Maybe very old?
A view looking up. Here you can see the "extreme" bend of the trunk. It almost appears if this tree grew that way for many many years
A view looking up. Here you can see the "extreme" bend of the trunk. It almost appears if this tree grew that way for many many years
Here is the image of the tulip tree I mentioned earlier in this post, and I put arrows indicating each of the unknown old trees.
InkedUnknowndistantphoto_LI.jpg
The blue arrow indicated the first unknown tree, which had the very heavy balding on the trunk. The red arrow indicates the 2nd unknown tree (the one with more very deep ridges on the trunk, and had the extreme bend). As you can see, they both are not so tall.

Anyhow, what tree species do you think those 2 trees could be, or how old even????
Best Regards,
BeeE.
Last edited by BeeEnvironment2020 on Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bbeduhn
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Re: Stateline Woods Preserve, off of Old Kennett Pike

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:17 am

BeeE,

I'll go with 101' to the first branch of the tulip. The tree does appear to be closer to 140' but I can't see the very top. If it is over 100' to the first branch, it is definitely much taller than 127'.

The first unknown tree is a balck gum, Nyssa sylvatica. The balding indicates significant age. It's tough to guess the actual age so I would put it anywhere from 130 to 220 years. The oak is most likely chestnut oak, Quercus montana. I haven't seen that discoloration on the trunk before.

Brian

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