Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

General discussions of forests and trees that do not focus on a specific species or specific location.

Moderators: edfrank, dbhguru

User avatar
bbeduhn
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Dec 21, 2020 10:29 am

I did some updating, added some species, and and added some subgroups.

Europe Eastern United States

A.Nordmanniana 198.5' 60.5m A. balsamea 108.7' 33.1m
A. pseudoplatanus 139.4' 42.5m A. saccharum 144.2' 43.9m
A. glutinosa 129.6' 39.5m A serrulata 47.0' 14.3m
B. pendula 119.4' 36.4m B. lenta 121.3' 37.0m
C. betulus 112.8' 34.4m C. caroliniana 77.3' 23.5m
C. australis 80.4' 24.5m C. laevigata 133.6' 40.7m
C. siliquastrum 45.6' 13.9m C. canadensis 66.2' 20.17m
C. sanguinea 24.0' 7.2m C. florida 60.1' 18.3m
C. avellana 49.9' 15.2m C. americana 18.6' 5.6m
C. monogyna 60.3' 18.4m C. mollis 46.3' 14.1m
F. sylvatica 167.3' 51.0m F. grandifolia 143.2' 43.6m
F. alnus 24.0' 7.2m F. caroliniana 35.8' 10.9m
F. excelsior 166.0' 50.6m F. nigra 120.0 36.5m (fraxinus sub)
F. excelsior 166.0' 50.6m F. americana 167.1' 50.9m (all ash)
I. aquifolium 72.1' 22.0m I. opaca 106.2' 32.3m
J. thurifera 69.2' 21.1m J. virginiana 102.1' 31.1m
L. decidua 176.5' 53.8m L. laricina 131.6' 40.1m
M. sylvestris 70.2' 21.4m M. angustifolia 56.1' 17.1m
P. abies 205.7' 62.7m P. rubens 155.3' 47.3m
P. nigra 155.5' 47.4m P. taeda 172.3' 52.5m (hard pines)
P. sibirica 95.5' 29.1m P. strobus 207.0' 63.1m +/- 1.5' .5m(soft pines)
P. orientalis 137.8' 42.0m P. occidentalis 165.5' 50.4m
P. alba 148.9' 45.4m P. grandidentata 126.5' 38.5m
P. nigra 142.4' 43.4m P. deltoides 161.7' 49.3m
P. avium 129.9' 39.6m P. serotina 153.3' 46.7m
Q. petraea 158.8' 48.4m Q. montana 153.6' 46.8m (white oaks)
Q. petraea 158.8' 48.4m Q. pagoda 160.2' 48.8m (all oaks)
S. alba 113.5' 34.6m S. nigra 125.6' 38.3m
A. aucuparia 77.1' 23.5m S. americana 56.1' 17.1m
T. x europaea 152.5' 46.5m T. heterophylla 153.2' 46.7m
U. glabra 144.3' 44.0m U. rubra 142.5' 43.4m


I also have some comparisons involving one native and one non-native species crossing the Atlantic. The non-natives are much smaller in numbers but some are rather surprising. I'll start with a hybrid that goes way back.

Europe Eastern United States origin

P. x acerifolia (hispanica) 168.3' 51.3m 146.4' 44.6m Europe
A. platanoides 124.3' 37.9m 122.0' 37.2m US
Q. palustris 139.4' 42.5m 136.4' 41.6m US
C. Illinoinensis 157.5' 48.0m 141.1' 43.0m US
L. decidua 176.5' 53.8m 146.0' 44.5m Europe
A. balsamea 108.2' 33.0m 108.7' 33.1m US
P. deltoides 122.7' 37.4m 161.7' 49.3m US
P. abies 205.7' 62.7m 150.5' 45.9m Europe
C. dentata 121.0' 36.9m 90.5' 27.6m US
U. laevis 118.1' 36.0m 125.0' 38.1m Europe
J virginiana 85.3' 26.0m 102.1' 31.1m US
Last edited by bbeduhn on Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by KoutaR » Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:21 am

Thanks for updates, Brian!

Where you got 42.5m for Acer pseudoplatanus from? I am aware of 41,5 m only.

Could you give the references for these American trees:
Crataegus mollis - 46.3'
Quercus palustris - 136.4'
Carya illinoiensis - 157.5'

Kouta

User avatar
bbeduhn
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:37 pm

The Acer pseudoplatanus is the same tree as the 41.5m. It was measured previously, by Sisley to 42.5m, and then Karlheinz measured it to 41.5m. It is in the Foret Dominiale de Ribeauville, France.

46.3' 14.11m downy hawthorn Crataegus mollis Belle Isle, MI USA Doug Bidlack

Pecan at the Jardines del principe, Aranjuez, Comunidad de Madrid, Spain 48m Marc Meyer

136.5’ 41.60m pin oak Quercus palustris DeSoto NF, MS USA Larry Tucei

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by KoutaR » Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:58 pm

Thanks Brian!

I updated the tables in the first message of this thread. Some notes:

For the tallest Acer pseudoplatanus I accepted Karlheinz' measurement (done with TruPulse 200X) as it is likely more accurate than Sisley's.

For Cercis siliquastrum, I accepted the second tallest tree as Spain is certainly not in the native range. Though the second tallest in France may also be outside the native range. The species is native in the Mediterranean France, the 13-metre specimen is north of the Pyrenees. I don't know exactly, where the native range ends. By the way, Cercis siliquastrum and Cercis canadensis are barely comparable: the former is a Mediterranean species, drougth-tolerant low tree, the latter is temperate species. The same apply to Ostrya: European O. carpinifolia is drought-tolerant semi-mediterranean species, O. virginiana is a temperate species.

For Pinus strobus I took the laser measurement after the crown breakage as prior to the breakage it was measured with the tangent method.

For Platanus orientalis, I accepted the second tallest tree as Italy is certainly not in the native range. Though it is unclear if Croatia is inside the native range.

User avatar
bbeduhn
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:11 pm

Kouta,

I didn't look at any range maps. I just verified that the trees are native to Europe or Eastern NA. On the P. strobus, obviously the tangent method is far more reliable on conifers, especially younger ones. In this case, I have no issue with using it, as it is just a comparison between continents, and you did laser measure the top portion. As for the Acer, I assumed slight crown die back. I've been measuring a tall tuliptree every year for the last six years. The height goes up or down every year. I assume both measurements are accurate on the Acer Pseudoplatanus. Sisley's measurement likely happened on an up year. I can remove the Cercis. I was wondering why you hadn't used it originally.

Brian

User avatar
KoutaR
Posts: 679
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2010 3:41 am

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by KoutaR » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:28 pm

Brian,

Nothing wrong to compare the two Cercis spp. Similarly you could say, Abies nordmanniana and A. balsamea are not comparable because the former is a temperate species and the latter a boreal one. It was just a note about differing habitats.

Kouta

User avatar
bbeduhn
Posts: 1370
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Re: Europe vs. the eastern US - comparing tree heights

Post by bbeduhn » Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:50 am

Kouta,
I misunderstood your comment about P. strobus. It was measured with the cross triangulation tangent method. Bob and Will took tangent methods from three different locations. I don't know the level of error but it is certainly small. I will put a +/- after the figure. I'll assume 1.5' or .5m.
Brian

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussions”