Chattooga River, SC

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#21)  Re: Chattooga River, SC

Postby bbeduhn » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:20 am

Erik,
The 185' white pine is in Jess Riddle's report on Cliff Creek, in GA.

Bob,
It took a good while to find the 146' tulip. It's up a good bit from the river. 150' is certainly a possibility but at the altitude and soil composition of the Chattooga region, it is not a certainty. The East Fork old growth would be the most likely location. I've searched along the river but haven't done much searching upslope. It has been searched in the past by other ENTS and a few standout hardwoods were discovered, but no exceptional tulips have been found as of yet.
Brian
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#22)  Re: Chattooga River, SC

Postby dbhguru » Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:19 pm

Brian,

  Good points. The lack of tall tulips in the Chattooga watershed area you've been studying illustrates the immense importance of local site index. Recalling that Elijah has measured tulips to 150 feet near Lake Ontario and I can't reach 150 feet in Massachusetts, try as though I may.

  As you know, one of the objectives of the VA Tech database is to provide range-wide mappings of the species that we track that will allow us to judge the validity of tree measurement data coming from non-NTS-Cadre measurers. It has always been apparent that this is going to be more difficult that just simple correlations to latitude and longitude with generous standard deviations. In the past we brainstormed about the data elements that we'd like to collect for our carefully measured trees, but outside of lat and long and maybe altitude, that has never proven to be something that any of us want to do. Getting geological and climate-based overlays are possibilities, but only if we are super serious about the data elements. It is usually too much work for a nebulous goal.

  The above said, we each develop our own mental maps of how a species does as we see more and more measurements for it. Any thoughts you'd like to share on that theme as you've collected data and seen that of others for the species that you are most comfortable with?

Bob
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#23)  Re: Chattooga River, SC

Postby bbeduhn » Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:03 pm

Bob,

I don't know that I have enough of a grasp on height distribution for any given species to say anything meaningful. I will say that with tulips, they do extremely well in rich soils but can do very nearly as well in not so rich soils. They seem to do best in east and northeastern facing coves. They appear tall to the naked eye on flats but I've yet to see them attain exceptional heights. Short bluffs above floodplains yield better heights than the floodplains. Tulips seem to like the bottoms of steep slopes best but can get quite tall near the tops of steep slopes as well.  They don't seem to do very well in acidic soils but can still be a dominant tree.

Mockernut hickories like drier sites but do better height wise with richer soils and more consistent moisture. The two tallest mockernuts live very close to trickling streams, which run dry much of the time, one on a fairly steep, eastern facing slope and the other on a moderate, north facing slope. The largest mockernut also resides next to a stream, on a flat.  The tallest mockernut is at the site with the most 120's ever seen. The second tallest has another 140', marking the only instance of two 140's.

As for tulips on the Chattooga, not only are soils mostly acidic, it gets quite hot in summer. Tulips don't like extreme heat. The higher altitude coves might yield taller tulips but the lower altitudes of the Chattooga appear to be fairly inhospitable to tulips.

Brian

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