Biltmore Estate Trees

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tsharp
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by tsharp » Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:50 pm

Brian: Your picture of the Sourwood sure captured the bark of a mature tree. Great picture. I question whether the Hickory pictured is a Shellbark.
TS

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:19 am

Turner and Will,
I thought carya alba at first but crawled through the tick underbrush to get some nuts. They are slightly over 2" in diameter and the interior nuts are significantly larger than carya alba. The bark certainly isn't typical shellbark. It is very pale in color. The tree is on a streambank and I found only five or seven leaves per twig on the ground. It's possible some leaves just fell off on the few I examines. Leaf size tends toward carya alba. I figured on an old shellbark, the leaves may simply be smaller than usual. Shellbark does not show as a native species in the mountains on the maps I've seen. We can take a closer look at it to be certain. I usually put a question mark by the species if I'm not certain and will do that in the future.
Brian

Edit: I was able to find incidence of 2" diameter mockernut fruit. My guides said 1.25-1.5". Mockernut makes more sense with the bark but I'm not certain as of yet.

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:03 pm

Bob,
Thanks for the accolades. Do we have somewhat current reports on these locations? I recall seeing reports on Poplar Forest and very recently Philadelphia's park but I haven't read anything on the others. Another tall tree park is Tanglewood, in Winston-Salem, as well as the two in Memphis. If we get some reports together, we could do a top ten, but without giving too much info away. Ranking them probably isn't necessary but a short list of some of the best of the best may be in order.
Brian

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:38 pm

Ticket Center 1/5/13

These trees grow in the open around the ticket center. I've measured some of the trees before but skipped some because of not being able to ID them. I think I got most of them correctly.
ID#
Quercus palustris pin oak 94.5' 42
Quercus macrocarpa bur oak 117.7' 1091
Quercus laurifolia laurel oak 107.9' 41
Carya ovata shagbark hickory 99.3' 1090
Tilia? basswood/linden 97.4' 46
Ulmus glabra Wych elm 97.4' 1098
Ulmus laevis Euro. white elm 105.7' 1107

Garden along entrance road between arch and ticket center 1/5/13

Zelkova carpinifolia? Caucasian elm 116.7' not certain on the id but have pics coming
??????? English walnut? white basswood? little leaf linden? 127.9' pics coming soon. I found a walnut under the tree but that doesn't prove anything. The branches appear to be too small but am not familiar with English walnut. This tree is covered almost head to toe with thick vines.
Quercus macrocarpa bur oak 83.0'
Ulmus laevis? Euro white elm 124.0' not as obvious as the white elm above but there was a 124 foot white elm measured at the ENTS gathering several years ago.
Last edited by bbeduhn on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:10 pm

Ticket Center to I-40 1/6/13

This area was less impressive than most I've seen, with the exception of the finest Norway spruce grove I've ever seen.

Picea abies Norway spruce 114.2' 118.7' 119.8' 121.2' 122.4' 123.0' 123.4'
previously measured in the grove 113.1' 114.7' 120.6' 122.0'
Oxydendrum arboreum sourwood 75.1' 87.3' and many smaller ones beneath the Norways
Pinus echinata shortleaf pine 101.9' 107.8'
quercus velotina blk oak 111.7'
pinus rigida pitch pine 89.6'
pinus strobus white pine 137.8' 141.1'
quercus alba white oak 101.0'
Prunus serotina blk cherry 105.0'

This next area is a small ridge by a horse trail. This was pointed out by Bill Hascher last fall when I visited with him. It has thick underbrush so I waited a while before tackling it. It was worth the wait.

pinus echinata shortleaf pine 101.1' 101.1' 103.0' 107.1' 107.3' 116.0' 117.0' 117.9'
Pinus virginiana VA pine 88.1'
Lirio. tulip tuliptree 131.0'

There's a series of trails by the hotel and Antler Hill Village. I just spent a matter of minutes there.

quercus alba white oak 118.5'
pinus virginiana VA pine 83.0'

Finally, I found a few VA pines. White oak and shortleaf pine increased, along with several exotics. The number of species topping 100' has risen to 42, and some of the richest areas have not yet been measured.

Current Rucker Indices

R5 = 145.74'
R10=139.25'
R15=134.40'
R20=130.40'
R30=125.20'
R40=120.60'
R50=115.33'

Brian

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:48 am

American basswood   Tilia americana
American basswood Tilia americana
tilia americana crown
tilia americana crown
European white elm
European white elm
ulmus minor    field elm
ulmus minor field elm
ulmus minor crown
ulmus minor crown
Caucasian elm?
Caucasian elm?
Caucasian elm crown?
Caucasian elm crown?
silver linden   tilia petiolaris
silver linden tilia petiolaris
silver linden  tilia petiolaris   127.9'
silver linden tilia petiolaris 127.9'
Norway Grove 1
Norway Grove 1
Norway grove 2
Norway grove 2
Norway grove 3
Norway grove 3
edit: I had the elms' names transposed.

The first tree had yellow buckeye fruit all around it. There are two buckeyes across the road. That's the only fruit i could find.
Last edited by bbeduhn on Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Will Blozan
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by Will Blozan » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:50 am

Brian,

The first mystery tree without ivy is a Tilia of some sort. The ivy covered tree no idea based on the photo. Leaves, fruit? And the elms look like elms- but what species I have no idea. Hopefully a Euro-NTS can contribute.

Will

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KoutaR
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by KoutaR » Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:56 am

Brian, Will,

The first mystery tree really looks a Tilia. It is probably not T. platyphyllos or T. x europaea as there are not any burls or sprouts at the base. I cannot help further without leaves/inflorescenses. If you want an ID you should take photos of green leaf undersides. Underside color and hairs (at junctions of nerves and overall) are important characters. Number of flowers in inflorescenses helps, too.

Also for the elm and the other trees: I cannot help without leaves/flowers/fruits. Fruits are good characters for elms.

Kouta

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bbeduhn
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Nov 06, 2013 1:26 pm

I solved a few mystery trees but still have one left to go. The pictures from a few posts ago have been updated.

I also have a handful of updates. I had a mismeasure on some walnuts (137.5'on one). These are accurate:

juglans nigra 124.7' 123.2'

taxodium distichum 120.5' by dawn redwood grove at first intersection after the visitor center

thuja occidentalis 89.4' on bridge after dawn redwood grove

taxodium distichum 135.0' below dam
taxodium distichum 124.9' below dam

pinus strobus group 152.0' 135.7' 149.6' 147.2' these are in close proximity along a fence line

some new finds

picea orientalis 103.2' by Nikko firs

tsuga canadiensis 120.8' below dam

quercus phellos 98.4' below dam

quercus alba 113.4' below dam

tsuga canadiensis 119.0' below dam

quercus michauxii 117.6' 12'4.5" cir between hotel and I-40 enormous crown

juglans nigra 94.8' near visitor center

tilia heterophylla 93.6' visitor center

pinus strobus 136.1' 142.6' 134.8' 149.0' between entrance and visitor center

pinus strobus 134.2' 133.9' 130.5' at entrance

metasequoia glyptostroboides 41.1' 18.1' 47.0' 27.5' 29.9' at entrance
Last edited by bbeduhn on Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jess Riddle
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

Post by Jess Riddle » Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:25 pm

Brian,

That Thuja could be a very significant find. At 89' it would be a new height record. We have 86' for a native tree and Will and Bob Van Pelt measured one at Biltmore to 72.6' back in 2004. Now with all the exotic conifers at Biltmore, we just need to make sure someone didn't slip in T. plicata or one of the Asian species.

I'm impressed by the cypress too.

Glad you're finding some time to measure.

Jess

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