Robert H. Treman State Park

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ElijahW
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Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Mon Mar 26, 2018 7:18 pm

NTS,

I thought I’d share a preliminary report on this site because it shows tremendous potential for diversity of tree species, overall forest age, and of course, tree size. Due to the main gorge trails being temporarily closed, I made all measurements from the parking lot. The cacophony of nearby jackhammers made the experience delightful.

Topographically, the area I’m referencing is a steep hillside (south-facing, I believe) at the mouth of a gorge. Hickories (Red & Shagbark) are dominant here, along with White Oak. The shelter provided by the high gorge walls give the feeling of a southern cove forest.

Anyways, here’s what I found today:

White Pine

143.4’
127.7’

Tuliptree

140.2’
132.6’

American Basswood

130.1’

Red Hickory

130.0’
115.6’

American Sycamore

121.0’

White Oak

119.2’

Eastern Hemlock

118.3’

Northern Red Oak

117.8’

Shagbark Hickory

116.0’

White Ash

111.9’

Black Oak

111.2’

Rucker 10: 124+

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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Erik Danielsen
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by Erik Danielsen » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:35 am

You got all of that just from the parking lot?! I thought that park looked interesting from aerial images but wasn't expecting that! Seems like a definite 130+ RHI10 potential site. Awesome first report!

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ElijahW
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:24 pm

Thanks Erik. Mounted on a stable surface, the Trupulse performs incredibly well at a distance. As long as you can clearly make out tops and bottoms of the same trees, you’re good to go. I don’t know what the rest of the park looks like tree-wise, but this is a good start. Supposedly, Red Pine grows at the top of the gorge, similar to Letchworth. We’ll see.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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ElijahW
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:02 pm

NTS, Erik,

I made a second trip to Treman this weekend, looking to measure a few more trees I didn't have time for. The sign at the entrance to the closed gorge trail stated that it's not expected to re-open until the end of May, so I don't think I'll return until then. This area next to the parking lot may be the best for tall trees anyway, though there's no way to tell until I see the remainder of the park.

Additional trees measured:

White Oak

123.1'

Bitternut Hickory

122.4'

Bigtooth Aspen

116.0'

Black Walnut

110.4'

Elijah Whitcomb
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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ElijahW
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:54 pm

NTS,

I returned to Robert Treman SP this afternoon, and was able to finish the survey I started a while back. While I didn’t find any life-changing lunkers, I was rewarded with a wonderfully diverse collection of trees, shrubs, and flowers within the gorge.

As with other similar Finger Lakes gorges, oaks (White, Black, and Chestnut) and hickories (Red and Pignut) dominate the upper rims. Tuliptrees, Hemlocks, White Pines, Shagbark Hickories, and Red and Sugar Maples are common on the steep slopes. The gorge bottom is loaded with Sycamores, Black and Yellow Birch, and to a lesser extent, White Ash. Red Oak and Basswood are found at every level of the ecosystem.

The wet, cool walls of the gorge provide shelter for Hornbeam, Witch hazel, Striped and Mountain Maple, and Maple Leaf Viburnum. Aside from the abundant trilliums, Mayapples, and Blue Cohosh, I couldn’t tell you what herbs and wildflowers I saw, but there’s quite a few. I really should have brought my guidebook with me.

Back to the trees. Here’s what I measured today:

*NY Height Maximum

Eastern White Pine

148.3’ x 9.4’
144.8’ x 8.55’

American Sycamore

140.3’ x 5.63’

Eastern Hemlock

134.6’ x 7.44’

White Ash

131.6’ x 7.19’
131.1’ x 7.93’

Bitternut Hickory

129.8’ x 5.45’

Cucumber Magnolia

127.1’ x 8.4’*

Eastern Cottonwood

121.0’ x 5.85’

Black Cherry

118.3’ x 5.91’

Chestnut Oak

114.2’ x 6.99’

Black Birch

100.1’

Current Rucker Average: 133.5’

Eastern White Pine: 148.3’
American Sycamore: 140.3’
Tuliptree: 140.2’
Eastern Hemlock: 134.6’
White Ash: 131.6’
American Basswood: 130.1’
Red Hickory: 130.0’
Bitternut Hickory: 129.8’
Cucumber Magnolia: 127.1’
White Oak: 123.1’

A couple of notes: Some trees (especially the Bitternut) are taller than listed, due to the difficulty I had in seeing tree tops in the closed canopy; also, many of the larger hemlocks have been tagged and treated for the HWA, which are present in the area.

I was able to count the growth rings on a fallen and cut up White Pine that seemed contemporary with those I measured, and arrived at approximately 160. That age seems appropriate for the majority of the oldest trees in the park, though many are obviously much younger, and a few are probably somewhat older.

Some photos of the park:
AAFCD7EF-C6C6-4AAB-99BB-0523B8967203.jpeg
36C88D85-720F-49C7-A0FC-51819311DF62.jpeg
18760917-BF7E-4CAD-AC15-5E7D33D8E383.jpeg
Maple leaf viburnum
Maple leaf viburnum
Typical forest floor on one of the small terraces
Typical forest floor on one of the small terraces
Sycamores in an abandoned channel
Sycamores in an abandoned channel
The tall Cuke
The tall Cuke
Same cuke
Same cuke
Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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dbhguru
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by dbhguru » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:35 am

Elijah,

Do you have a convenient list of NY sites by Rucker index? I'm losing track of where all the hot sites are. If we could clone you and Erik, we'd know every great site within a year. You guys are unstoppable.

Bob
Robert T. Leverett
Co-founder, Native Native Tree Society
Co-founder and President
Friends of Mohawk Trail State Forest
Co-founder, National Cadre

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ElijahW
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:05 pm

Bob,

I’ll see what I can put together in a separate thread. I’m sure I’ll leave a few out, but Erik would know the rest.

Elijah
"There is nothing in the world to equal the forest as nature made it. The finest formal forest, the most magnificent artificially grown woods, cannot compare with the grandeur of primeval woodland." Bob Marshall, Recreational Limitations to Silviculture in the Adirondacks

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bbeduhn
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by bbeduhn » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:07 am

Elijah,
You found a very rich site with excellent topography. It has a serious herb layer and some impressive height to girth ratios. This winter, you'll likely find a few state records.

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ElijahW
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by ElijahW » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:00 pm

NTS,

Yesterday, I revisited this park, hiking the gorge trails on both sides of Enfield Glen. The weather was mild and beautifully clear, and the park was well-attended, in spite some of the rules implemented in response to COVID (one-way traffic on some narrow sections of trail, blocked-off parking spaces, etc.). Much of the trail system just opened for the season, following the annual inspection and repair of the steeper portions. I didn't measure many new trees, but do have updates on some previously mentioned ones, along with exciting age information. Let's start with new measurements:

Red Hickory Carya ovalis

143.8' x 7.58'
138.0' x 7.18'

Shagbark Hickory Carya ovata

122.0'

Northern Red Oak Quercus rubra

124.5' x 6.83'

Black Oak Quercus velutina

120.0'

Remeasurements:

Eastern White Pine Pinus strobus

150.2' x 9.62'

American Sycamore Platanus occidentalis

141.8' x 5.82'

Bitternut Hickory Carya cordiformis

132.0' x 5.51'

American Basswood Tilia americana

130.3' x 5.33'

White Ash Fraxinus americana

132.3'

White Oak Quercus alba

125.6'

Current Rucker 10 Index: 135.8'

A number of trees that had fallen over the winter were cut in sections in order to clear the hiking trails. I could have spent the whole day counting growth rings on these trees, but I didn't; however, I did count a few. Here's what I found (all of these ring counts were from trees on the north side of the Glen):

White Oak:

~330 rings (probably less than 5' from ground level, but not certain); average diameter 2.45'
~210 rings at 8' above ground level

Northern Red Oak:

~184 rings at 30'

Red Hickory:

~160 rings at 27' (total is likely higher; some wood had decayed and was difficult to read)

Red Pine:

~180 rings at ground level

Elijah

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bbeduhn
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Re: Robert H. Treman State Park

Post by bbeduhn » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:52 am

Elijah,

That is an impressive looking gorge! The waterfall rocks and the trees and herb layers rock. The red hickory is a state record.

If you get the chance, could you look over New York's individual sites. I noticed I'd put the red in the state Rucker but failed to update the Treman site until today. I wouldn't be surprised if I failed to read through all of the posts on a few other sites.

Thanks,
Brian

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