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Fork Ridge red spruce LiDAR hunt


I took the opportunity as a trip leader at the Smoky Mountain Wildflower Pilgrimage in early May to ground-truth some tall LiDAR hits in the spruce zone of Fork Ridge. Fork Ridge (yes, the same system as the tallest tuliptree) is a gently sloping southeast running ridge covered in some of the finest red spruce ( Picea rubens ) forest in Great Smoky Mountains National Park.
9- ancient, massive spruce.jpg
Josh Kelly sent me some waypoints and I uploaded them to my GPS. All seven of the hits were above 140' (42.7 m) which is significant for the elevations being sampled; ~5,000' (1,500 m). There were only three options for what the hits could be; tall spruce, moderately tall hemlock ( Tsuga canadensis ), or erroneous readings from leaning trees. We found all three.

Hit #1 was a 143' (43.6 m) return in old-growth red spruce forest. The stand was steep, dense and tall so finding the tree took some time. The search paid off with a 151.2 footer (46.1 m)- the third spruce ever documented over 150'. Diameter was a respectable 35.2" (89.3 cm).
2- 151.2 foot spruce base.jpg
3- 151.2 foot spruce crown.jpg
Hit #2 was a 141 foot return which turned out to be a 148.1' (45.1 m) spruce with a large trunk 37" (94.0 cm) diameter. This was the same tree I measured to 147' (44.8 m) back in 1996-7.
4- 148.1 foot spruce.jpg
Hit #3 was a 148' return which was actually a respectable hemlock. Dead from HWA.

Hit #4 was a 154' return which we were really excited about. Damn, downslope-leaning ancient hemlock. Dead from HWA.

Hit #5 was a 144' return at the base of a narrow ravine. A towering spruce resided there and stood 152.6' (46.5 m) tall on a large base 38" (96.4 cm) diameter. The tree had just died and would have been the third tallest specimen ever documented.
7- 152.6 foot spruce dead.jpg
Hit #6 was nearby and turned out to be a leaning spruce with an interesting multi-topped crown. LiDAR suggested 143' (43.6 m) but it was actually 136.6' (41.6 m).
8- 136.6 foot spruce leaning downslope.jpg
Hit #7 was hoped to be the crowning tree of the day. A 157' LiDAR hit in dense spruce forest instead yielded a large leaning hemlock over a steep slope. Yep, you guessed it- dead from HWA.

On the way out I stopped to count the rings on a freshly cut fallen spruce log. It was solidly over 400 years and not very close to the base. Back in the late 1990's I also ring counted a 380 year log about 50' from the base. This is a really old spruce forest and I have no doubt a 500 year tree could be found here.
Ring slice.jpg
We have ground-truthed LiDAR hits in hardwood forest and this was the first spruce zone foray. The LiDAR data do tend to underestimate height so this, coupled with the rather coarse 20' (6 m)sampled grid left a high possibility of the heights being significantly low for narrow-topped spruce. This also suggested that the LiDAR would commonly miss tall trees with a narrow top not near a sampled point. This is definitely the case- as we found adjacent trees not recorded by LiDAR that were taller than 140' (42.7 m). Basically, the current LiDAR data are insufficinet to accurately assess individual spruce heights but they do give a good indication of where the tall trees are. This fact alone is immeasurably helpful as red spruce forests are one of the nastiest to traverse. Of all the eastern forests types red spruce is one of the least sampled and remains the last frontier for superlative specimens. Nearly every trip into the red spruce zone yields new records for the species. We are at the tip of the iceberg so to speak for this species.

Thanks to Hugh Erwin for his help with measuring in the difficult terrain!

by Will Blozan
Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:27 am
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Giant Forest tree hunt 5-22-2011


Logistical snafus, weather delays, and climbing restrictions gave me some opportunities to explore parts of Giant Forest in search of superlative trees. Dr. Bob Van Pelt gave me a list of what was considered superlative for several species in the area.

The first area I went to was an area I will call the “Giant Forest Appendix”. It is a narrow strip of sequoia dominated forest that runs down a steep ravine off the main plateau. The ravine gives good shelter and the moisture of the creek, some fire protection. I had spotted some tall-looking sugar pines (Pinus lambertiana) and incense cedar (Calocedrus decurrens) on the drive up the previous week.
According to Bob’s cheat sheet, 250 feet (76.2 m) was notable for a sugar pine. The first tree I measured was close- 245.5’ (74.8 m) on a 65.4" DBH (166.2 cm) trunk. Next to this tree was a fine cedar- and if I could find one over 175’ (53.3 m) I would be in possession of a new Sierra height record. The day was off to a good start as the cedar soared to 178.1’ (54.3 m) on a modest 54" DBH (137.1 cm) trunk.

I continued down the ravine and found more pines in the 220’s then the forest became dry so I drove down the road to Crystal Cave. More 170' (51.8 m) cedars were scattered about as well as numerous more sugar pines in the low 200’s (61 m). As I drove past a small creek, strange foliage caught my eye. It was a small grove of California nutmeg (Torrey californica)- one of which was a new Sierra height record of 71.2’ (21.7 m). In this grove were some pacific dogwoods in bloom (Cornus nutallii).
3-Torreya bark001.jpg
11-Pacific dogwood001.jpg
12-Pacific dogwood bloom001.jpg

I explored many, many flats and slopes along the road but did not get any new records until a small sugar pine dominated ravine. The pines were large and close to 230’ but what caught my eye here was a slender cedar that I shot up into out of the car window. From the car I got over 200’ above eye- a height never thought possible for the species at this latitude. I parked and went to the base to measure diameter and zero the base. A clean shot from the opposite side of the ravine was an astounding 217.7’! Bob says this may be the second tallest ever recorded for the species.
5-record Calocedrus001.jpg
6-18 foot sugar pine001.jpg
As the road entered the drier forests of oak and pine (including some 220’+ ponderosa pine; Pinus ponderosa) I turned back and went back up to the Giant Forest plateau.
4-220' pondie001.jpg
Here I began a search in a sheltered, north facing bowl that showed great promise for tall trees. Earlier in the week Bob had measured a sequoia from the road that exceeded 300’. This was only the third tree known in Giant Forest to exceed 300’. I went way up slope to measure this young, double topped tree and with my Nikon 440 and clinometer got a height of 306.1 feet (93.3 m). Intrigued, Bob came up with his impulse laser and after careful shots got 306.7 feet (93.5 m). Typically Bob and I have such close height numbers- a great endorsement for the techniques we use in ENTS. This is also why the western tree hunters bank on our numbers and don’t question our reports.
1-306.7 foot SEGI001.jpg
Near this tall tree were the crumbled remains of a former giant tree recorded by Wendell D. Flint at over 30,000 cubic feet. It has a teetering single limb system on the edge of a burned out shell of a trunk.
306.7 foot sequoia with crumbling hulk.jpg
2-Former giant001.jpg
I continued upstream from the new tall sequoia to see what else lurked in the bowl. I measured numerous sequoia over 280’- a good sign as this is a significant height for the species. Some of you may recall that 311’ (94.8 m) is the tallest recorded- a tree I climbed in 2009.
While upslope measuring an adjacent tree I spotted a thrifty top arising from a big break on the top of a huge sequoia. I roughed it to over 300’ (91.5 m)! Number four over 300’! I went to the base to find midslope and measure the girth (these tall trees involved a lot of hiking to get the base referenced… and then get back up to a spot to see the tree).
8-303.4' SEGI001.jpg
Holy moly! This was a big tree (19.5’ or 5.95 m at BH)- and I would later learn that it is the largest 300 footer ever discovered. The wood volume of this tree may be close to 30,000 cubic feet. I did the best I could on the base shot since there was still three feet of snow on the north side. My shot from two separate locations yielded the exact same height of 303.4’ (92.5 m). How was this tree not previously discovered? I hope Bob or Steve Sillett can return to this tree and reticle it for volume.
7-303.4' SEGI 5.95m DBH-1001.jpg
303.4 foot sequoia as viewed upslope.jpg
While at the base of the new sequoia find I spotted a Sierra (or California) white fir (Abies lowiana) that looked quite tall. My last trip here set a new height record for this species of 247.7’ (75.5 m). This tree was a tad shorter at 240.1’ (73.2 m). From the sighting position for the fir measurements I spotted a sugar pine that although young, was quite large and arrow straight. It turns out this tree would be the tallest found on this trip and the current park height record of 247.6’ (75.5 m). The fire-scarred base was a respectable 73.7” (187.3 cm) diameter.
10-73.2 m Abielow001.jpg
9-Tall sugar001.jpg
I continued to measure more tall sequoia- one to 290’ but no more over 300’. I returned down the other side of the ravine and the only notable tree was an outstandingly small white fir that although only 52.2” (132.6 cm) in diameter rocketed up to a top 242.8’ (74.0 m) high! What was even crazier was this top was on a reiteration that arose after the main top broke out- indicating it was quite possibly much taller. Bob, Steve and I all believe it is just a matter of time until a 262’ (80 m) fir is found. 80 meters is considered the superlative threshold for the pine family.

For now, Giant Forest has only begun to be surveyed for trees other than sequoia. Bob and Steve are now in possession of high resolution LiDAR data that promise to reveal some exciting stuff. Bob already has several dozen points over 295’ (90 m) to check out- including one hit over 311’ (95 m).

Now, if only I wasn’t so far away…

Will Blozan
by Will Blozan
Sun Jul 03, 2011 1:18 pm
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Updated WV Maximum Dimension List


Attached is a maximum dimension list for WV updated through 5/6/11. The list contains only trees/shrubs that are native to West Virginia. Any know dead trees have been removed with the intention of accumulating a historical maximum dimension list.
The surprise of the year was a Serviceberry with a height of 101 feet. It was ID as Amelanchier arborea - Common or Downy Serviceberry. It is on private property and the landowner recognized it as unusual and left a buffer zone of trees around it after selling some timber.
The East Maximum Dimension List that Jess Riddle developed shows 73.4' height for A. arborea - and 108.8' height for
A. laevis - Allegheny or Smooth Servicberry.
Any comments and questions are appreciated.
Turner Sharp
by tsharp
Wed Jul 06, 2011 4:48 pm
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West Virginia Big Tree Register

NTS: Two years ago I offered to help update the WV Big Tree Register which had been moribund for about 10 years. The WV Division of Forestry was very agreeable. With a lot of good ideas from the NTS board and Scott Wade's PA list I listed several goals to shoot for when updating the Register.

1. The Register should be online. Finally happened in summer of 2011.
2. All Multi-stem trees should be identified as such.
3. Any circumference not taken at the standard 4 1/2' mid slope height should be clearly indicated.
4. The register must indicate how the height measurement was made.
5. Include the three biggest point total trees in the register but also to include the largest circumference, tallest height, and widest spread. ie basically a maximum dimension list.
6. Update the register annually with the biggest point total tree reinspected within 5 years and the others within 10.
I introduced six district foresters to the sine based method of height determination with a clinometer and laser range finder and they did the bulk of the inspections and we probably got through 90 percent of the database in 2 years.

The results may be found here:


I will be involved for at least another year and intend to push for a better information on the website especially as it pertains to access/location. At present we only list the tree location to county and nearest town.

I value any comments on how the WV Big Tree Register is presented any any improvements that can be made.

Turner Sharp
by tsharp
Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:52 pm
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Georgia canopy heights from LiDAR

In terms of tree heights, North Georgia has long taken a back seat to the mountains of western North Carolina, eastern Tennessee, and northwestern South Carolina. Out of dozens of overstory species that reach their maximum height in the southern Appalachians, the Georgia mountains support the height records for only four species, and three of those are pines growing in the Chattooga River watershed. That lack of records has endured despite extensive searching, rainfall comparable to more record rich regions of the Southern Appalachians, and long growing seasons. However, that pattern is poised to change thanks to LiDAR.

LiDAR data is currently available for only about half of north Georgia’s mountains, but a plethora of extremely promising sites are already apparent. LiDAR indicates literally hundreds of groves with trees over 150’, and 160’s are common in some watersheds. Many of these areas have been little or not at all previously searched, but others are known tall tree sites. Many of the latter appear more extensive or have a wider range of productive habitat types than previously thought.

The apparent lack of tall trees in Georgia was partly a product of the types of sites that are most productive in Georgia. Coves dominated by a mix of tall hardwoods, by far the most abundant and productive tall tree sites in western North Carolina, are relatively predictable based on topography and the records of uncommon rich site species. Georgia has few cove forests that are the same caliber as those found in western North Carolina in terms of productivity. Instead, LiDAR indicates Georgia has an abundance of sites where white pine grows well. Such sites are less predictable from topography, and the tall trees are often scattered rather than densely packed in discrete groves. Consequently, most of the records from north Georgia will be species that grow well in association with white pines or on similar site types, but there is also some potential for rich site hardwoods that grow best at low elevations.

This holiday season I will be visiting a few of the most promising sites. Overestimation of tree heights due to leaning trees on steep slopes is much more common with white pine than tuliptree, so it is hard to say just how tall the trees will turn out to be. The data is dense enough to see a strong lean, so the largest errors can be avoided. The tallest hits that look reliable are around 190’, so the Boogerman Pine’s reign as the tallest known conifer in the east may not last much longer.


by Jess Riddle
Wed Dec 21, 2011 8:40 pm
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Sand Branch, GA

I recently explored some privately owned coves in an area I’ll call Sand Branch. Sand Branch is not a place you inadvertently stumble upon. Several miles of dirt road separate the small watershed, only about a mile long, from the nearest highway, but the stream does not lie near any wilderness area either. Judging from a topo map, the surrounding mountains do not stand out as remarkable for north Georgia. From a base at Lake Rabun, elevation 1690’, the highest peaks in the area rise to only around 3000’.

The fog on the day I visited added to the feeling of a secluded and forgotten area. Water dripped from the dark green leaves of the rhododendrons that line much of the quiet road that bisects the watershed. On the slopes above and away from the road, the understory remains dark and evergreen, but the species composition changes to mountain laurel and dwarf rhododendron. In a few north facing coves and adjacent northeast facing slopes, the locations that likely retain the most nutrients and moisture, the color switches to the tan of dead leaves, and the understory transitions to a deciduous mix of buckeye and silverbell. On the most sheltered of these sites, only two coves, tuliptree excludes all other species from the overstory, but on slightly less productive sites that species is a minor component of forests dominated by white, northern red, and black oaks, pignut and mockernut hickory, many of them well formed and 120’ tall. Moving downstream black birch, eastern hemlock, and eventually white pine enter the canopy, and moving towards drier positions upslope chestnut oak dominates the overstory with a few pitch pines mixed in on the larger ridges.


I think I made an error when recording my angles and distances for the mockernut history, but the listed height is consistent with what I obtained by shooting vertically from beneath the tree. A taller pignut hickory is known from the Smokies, but the identification on that tree needs to be double checked. I didn’t recognize the largest pignut hickory at first, because the bark was much lighter than I am accustomed to; in general, the tree closely resembles a bitternut, but lacks the yellow buds. Other pignuts in the area had darker bark and fruits with a pronounced neck. Since I could not find any fruits from the largest hickory, there is still some possibility that this tree is actually a sand hickory.


At 140.8’, the site has the second highest Rucker index in Georgia, just surpassing Cliff Creek, even though black birch is the tenth species. More searching of the lower reaches would likely substantially improve the index. Basswood, present in the Rucker index for most montane hardwood sites and almost always present, appears to be completely absent from this watershed. Overall, this site struck me as one of the finest oak-hickory forests in north Georgia, and probably has more tall mockernut hickories than another other site I have visited.

by Jess Riddle
Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:18 am
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"Super Cove" Sunday- Elkmont, TN TALLEST FOREST?


Just a quick report before bed. Today Michael Davie and I spent most of the day surveying a "super cove" discovered via recently obtained LiDAR data interpretated by Josh Kelly, Michael Davie and Jess Riddle. The site near the abandoned town of Elkmont was the north slope of Burnt Mountain which ironically is flanked on the north side by superlative forest and on the south and upper slopes by grape thickets. The site was very rich and more diverse than other "super coves". Josh was able to identify over 40 LiDAR "hits" over 170' and three over 180'- basically a continous high canopy across the slope. Very few sites match this signature density so we were stoked.

The LiDAR was comparable to other ground-truthed areas- some trees over predicted and others under. The highest points were leaning trees on steep slopes but some of the lower points turned out to be the taller trees since they leaned upslope the high point was upslope of the base.

We were able to get an initial Rucker Index of 152.7 for the small area. I think this may be the tallest micro-site Rucker Index? More searching will bring it up a bit. I have photos but seriously, they look look every other similar young second-growth site in the southern Appalachians. I'll post them later.

This site was probably around 90 years old and unfortunately, eaten by earthworms.

Rucker 10 152.7

Tuliptree 180.3 (180.2' tree nearby)
Biltmore ash 162.2 (tallest recorded- also 154.7')
Bitternut 160.1 (tallest recorded)
Sycamore 154.7
White basswood 151.0 (third tallest in Smokies)
N. red oak 148.4
Black cherry 146.2 (tallest in Smokies)
Yellow buckeye 144.1 (mid-story tree)
Red maple 143.2
Cucmbertree 137.0 (token 'cause we needed another tree for the RI...)

We also looked at a cove near Cucumber Gap and Mike hit a 184.9' tuliptree- tallest known tree in Tenneessee!!! Many others in the high 170's.

We literally passed under probably 60-70 tuliptrees over 170' today. Infact, we did not really bother with trees less than 175'...

by Will Blozan
Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:58 pm
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Cooper Creek WMA, GA

On Sunday, March 25th, I took advantage of the gorgeous spring weather by traveling the 2 hours from my home in Atlanta to Cooper Creek Wildlife Management Area in North Georgia's Chattahoochee National Forest. I had previously read about the area in one of the great online "Sherpa Guides" that cover many different natural areas in Georgia. I knew Jess Riddle had been to the area in the past, so I also was able to consult with him to devise a "plan of action" for the day. To say I was excited about the trip is a major understatement. The daily grind of full time work and full time grad school was getting to me and I very much needed some "forest time". I couldn't convince any other (human) friends to go with me, so alas it was just the puppy and me. All the better :)

Those who know Cooper Creek will tell you that there is a chunk "old growth" forest there. The more years I get under my belt as a naturalist, the less I know what those words actually mean. I expected a couple of remnant (old) trees and knew of some "huge" tuliptrees from online postings, but again, until I saw it for myself I wasn't fully convinced. Boy oh boy was I in for a wonderful surprise.

Cooper Creek is a classic rich mountain cove forest. The area I explored is on a north facing slope above Cooper Creek at about 2500' elevation.
Cooper Creek topo.png

The trail system in this area is mostly old dirt logging roads, but thankfully those loggers left a good deal of this cove as God intended it. I should really call this trip report the "Day of the Tuliptrees" as that's where my focus was and that's mostly what I measured and gawked at the whole day. It was truly amazing. Now on to the data....

Liriodendron tulipifera (smallest to largest measured):
12'8" x 129.4'
13'2" (huge fire cave)
15'5" x 114.2' (blown out top)
16'3.5" x 127.3' (blown out top, multiple reiterations)
17'5.5" x 157.2' x 91' = 390 Big Tree Points (GIANT! - I will nominate as new state co-champion)
19'3" x 132.2 x 71' = 381 Big Tree Points (I believe this is currently listed as state co-champion)

Tuliptree pictures:
Ophie the tree hunter.jpg
Cooper LiTu 14'7" full shot.jpg
Cooper Creek 15'11" LiTu.jpg
Cooper fattest LiTu base from afar.jpg
Cooper fattest LiTu CBH.jpg
Cooper fattest LiTu broken crown.jpg
Cooper fattest LiTu w scale.jpg
Now the above tuliptree is the one many online sites (including Sherpa Guides) claims to be the "biggest in Georgia". It's not the tallest (not by far), it doesn't have the most total points (about 20-30 short), and I know Jess Riddle has documented a few Tulips around 20' CBH and over, so it's not the fattest... so it ain't the biggest, right?

This next tree is likely overlooked by many visitors as it is up the slope and a bit off trail from the "biggest". It's smaller in CBH (though 17'+ ain't nuthin' to sneeze at!), but much taller, with a crown that's still intact. I took very careful measurements of both Tulips to get accurate point totals with the suspicion that the "skinnier" one would outpoint the "biggest"... I was right :)
Cooper Creek champ LiTu.jpg
Cooper Creek Champion LiTu CBH.jpg
Cooper Creek champion LiTu w Ophie.jpg

Other tree species measured:
Betula lenta 4'0.5" x 85.7'
Betula lenta 11'1" x 102.8' x 56' ("walking" birch, exagerrated CBH)
Carya spp. 111.1'
Magnolia fraseri (probably) 2'9" x 85.3'
Oxydendron arboreum 3'8" x 82.2'
Oxydendron arboreum 5'0.5" x 94.9'
Pinus strobus 10'6"
Tilia spp. 111.9'

And more pictures...

Nice Sourwood:

Cooper OxAr2.jpg
Cooper OxAr1.jpg

Wildflowers and such:

Cooper yellow violet.jpg
Cooper rue.jpg

This gnarly "walking tree" was a beauty. Now how would YOU measure the CBH? From the midslope at the ground it's 11'1" and total points = state champ

walking birch2.jpg
walking birch1.jpg

This is Betula lenta , right?
Cooper birch1.jpg

That is all for now. On my way out on Forest Service Road 33, I passed a nice double trunk hemlock (9'3" and 11'3" CBH's x 140') and a 4'5" x 100'+ double trunk Virginia pine as well... I'll post about those under my forthcoming Sosbee Cove report... also a fantastic site!

by eliahd24
Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:39 pm
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222 Confirmed Redwoods Over 350 ft. LiDAR project concludes

23 364.9 13.5 Harriett Weaver, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
24 364.7 10.0 Randy Stoltmann, Humboldt, Harper Flat
25 364.7 16.0 Pyramid Giant, Humboldt, Harper Flat
26 364.5 10.7 Rocket Top, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
27 364.3 11.4 Valentine, Humboldt, Harper Flat
28 364.0 10.0 Pinnacle, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
29 363.4 14.0 Daedalus, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. Big ol' spike top.
30 363.4 11.1 Gultch Tower, AKA T7, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary.
31 363.2 16.0 Lost Hope, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
32 363.2 13.6 Tranquility, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
33 363.1 11.1 Crown Jewel, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
34 362.8* 9.5 Libby (A.K.A. Tall), Redwood, Tall Trees Grove. Dead top. Former title holder for tallest, 1963-1994.
35 362.7 13.2 South Fork, Humboldt, Founders Grove
36 362.7 14.7 Gray Poison, Humboldt, Patriarch
37 362.0 12.7 Graywacke, Humboldt, Harper Flat
38 361.8 12.6 Rockview, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
39 361.4 12.6 Rosebark, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
40 361.4 9.4 Alan Mitchell, Humboldt, New World Forest
41 361.3 11.2 Swamp, Montgomery, Montgomery Flat
42 361.3 10.8 Canoe Creek, Humboldt, Canoe Creek Flat
43 361.1 12.0 LIDAR RC 112.6, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. A.K.A. "T4"
44 361.0 15.5 Brutus, Humboldt, Harper Flat
45 360.8 13.8 John Muir, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
46 360.7 13.2 Mesa, Humboldt, Founders Grove
47 360.5 17.3 Montgomery Giant, Montgomery, Montgomery Flat
48 360.5 11.9 Lost Daughter, Humboldt, Harper Flat
49 360.2 15.7 Springing Buck, Humboldt, Founders Grove
50 360.2 12.8 Frank Atkins, Humboldt, Founders Grove
51 360.2 17.2 Redwood Creek Giant, Redwood, Redwood Creek
Rare 350' class
52 359.9 12.5 Outlier, Prairie, Cal Barrel Road
53 359.7 13.4 Miller Creek, Humboldt, Miller Flat
54 359.7 12.8 Dome Top, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
55 359.7 12.0 Baby, Redwood, Formerly known as "T11", Redwood Creek Tributary
56 359.6 14.7 Symmetrical Spiral, Humboldt, Founders Grove
57 359.6 11.2 Cinnamon Bark, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
58 359.4 13.5 Washout, Humboldt, Federation Grove
59 359.3 15.0 Dark Horse, Formerly known as "Polaris", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary.
60 359.3 11.3 Quadraspire, Montgomery, Lower Flat
61 359.2 11.7 Idril, Formerly known as Alluvium, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
62 359.1 9.8 Axis, Humboldt, Harper Flat
63 359.0 12.5 Sawtooth, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
64 358.6 9.9 Pinner, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
65 358.5 10.1 Scar Base, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
66 358.4 10.2 Bumble Bee, Humboldt, Harper Flat
67 358.4 10.3 Radford Stovepipe, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
68 358.3 12.3 Mattole Beast, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
69 358.2 11.1 Rifle, Humboldt, Harper Flat
70 358.2 13.2 Floodmark, Humboldt, Founders Grove
71 358.1 16.4 Matterhorn Giant, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
72 358.1 13.2 Warrior, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
73 358.0 9.7 Franz, Formerly known as "Riverview", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
74 357.7 13.8 A.C. Carder, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
75 357.5 9.5 Grazer, Formerly known as "Cornstalk", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
76 357.4 12.0 Watchtower, formerly known as "TT11", Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park, Browns Creek Tributary
77 357.4 11.1 Wishbone, Montgomery, Upper Flat
78 357.4 15.5 RC 109.20 LiDAR, formerly known as "T20", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
79 357.4 11.9 Sarah, Humboldt, Harper Flat
80 357.2 10.8 Candlestick, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
81 357.2 9.1 Graben, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
82 357.1 11.9 Parallel Pillars, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
83 357.1 11.9 Cirque Bowl Tower, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
84 357.1 15.0 RC 109.69 LIDAR, formerly known as "T18", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
85 357.1 13.5 Barricade, Humboldt, Harper Flat
86 357.0 13.2 Arrowhead, Humboldt, Harper Flat
87 356.7 9.0 Philip Burton, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
88 356.7 11.0 Alice Neighbor, Formerly Known as "H-25", Humboldt, Harper Flat
89 356.6 10.8 Satellite, Montgomery, Upper Flat
90 356.6 15.5 Emerald Giant, Redwood, Redwood Creek
91 356.6 14.6 Centennial, Humboldt, Remnant Forest
92 356.5 8.5 Marilona, Humboldt, Harper Flat
93 356.5 12.9 PA 8 LIDAR, Formlery known as "UT8"' Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
94 356.4 11.0 Gil-Gilad, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
95 356.4 15.9 New Hope, Jedediah, West Fork Clarks Creek
96 356.3 10.7 Scar Amber, Humboldt, Miller Flat
97 356.2 12.8 Navigation, Humboldt, New World Forest
98 356.2 10.9 William Harlow, Montgomery, Middle Flat
99 356.0 8.2 Valeria, Formerly known as "Cobblestone", Humboldt, Millennium Grove
100 355.9 12.9 Boyes creek Tree, Formerly known as "TT10", Prairie, Boyes Creek Tributary
101 355.6 12.5 David Elkins, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
102 355.5 13.8 Obelisk Neighbor, Formerly Known as "H-26", Humboldt, Harper Flat
103 355.5 15.0 RC 108.06 LiDAR, formerly known as "T31", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
104 355.5 14.4 William Kent, Humboldt, Kent Grove
105 355.4 N/A Calf Creek LIDAR 1, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
106 355.4 13.1 Laura Mahan, Humboldt, Founders Grove
107 355.3 9.5 Logjam, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
108 355.2 16.5 Odyssey, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
109 355.1 12.0 Imperial, Montgomery, Upper Flat
110 355.1 11.0 Tosca, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
111 355.0 16.0 RC 113.55 LIDAR, Formerly known as "Big Leaner", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
112 355.0 11.7 Bamboozle, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
113 355.0 13.5 Phoenix, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
114 355.0 10.9 Obelisk, Humboldt, Harper Flat
115 355.0 12.1 Creekside Cavern, Montgomery, Lower Flat
116 355.0 12.9 South Brown. Formerly known as "TT8", Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary
117 354.9 9.6 Crescent Moon, Montgomery, Upper Flat
118 354.9 13.8 Calf Creek, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
119 354.9 13.8 Maeglin, Formerly known as Chestnut, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
120 354.8 8.8 Greyhound, Montgomery, Upper Flat
121 354.7 15.5 Maya, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
122 354.6 12.0 Rhododendron, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
123 354.6 10.7 Shamrock, Humboldt, Founders Grove
124 354.6 12.5 El Deuce, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
125 354.5 N/A Offset Tower, Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary
126 354.5 11.5 Luke's Lookout, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
127 354.4 10.8 Quintuple Tower, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
128 354.4 8.8 Space Needle, Humboldt, Harper Flat
129 354.4 14.6 Bruiser, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
130 354.4 11.0 Luke's Lookout, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
131 354.3 16.9 Giant, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
132 354.3 13.9 Crescendo, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
133 354.3 13.5 Cinder Cone, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
134 354.3 9.7 Cannoe II, Formerly known as "Thimble", Humboldt, Canoe Creek
135 354.2 9.5 Tempest, Montgomery, Middle Flat
136 354.2 N/A PA 7 LiDAR, Formerly known as "UT7", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
137 354.1 15.2 Tree 139, Formerly konwn as "U-4", Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
138 354.0 14.6 Golden Vine, Formerly Known as "Yellow Vine", Humboldt, Founders Grove
139 354.0 10.4 Wounded Knee, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
140 353.8 11.7 Meanderfall, Humboldt, Founders Grove
141 353.8 14.0 Glass Castle, Formerly Known as "JS6", Jedediah, Mill Creek Basin
142 353.7 14.6 Jeanie Taller, Humboldt , Lower Bull Creek Flat
143 353.6 13.3 PA 49 LiDAR, Formerly Known as "UT49",Humboldt, Upper Flat
144 353.6 14.5 Bond Behemoth, Formerly known as "TT7", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. Huge tree with straight axis. Found by LIDAR.
145 353.6 13.2 Gemstone, Redwood, Emerald Creek
146 353.5 14.9 Obsidian, Humboldt, Founders Grove
147 353.5 13.0 Twister, Redwood, Larry Damm Creek
148 353.4 N/A Sediment, Humboldt, Founder Grove
149 353.4 3.54 Warm Winds, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
150 353.4 11.0 PA 5 LiDAR, Formerly Known as "UT-5", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
151 353.3 9.0 Hairpin, Prairie, Foothill Trail.
152 353.3 11.7 Hans, Formerly known as "Riverfront", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
153 353.3 9.0 Whippet, AKA "Bombardier", Humboldt, Harper Flat `
154 353.3 14.0 Carrie Salz, Humboldt, Founders Grove
155 353.2 9.7 Steeple, Humboldt, Harper Flat
156 353.2 11.0 Moundsprout, Humboldt, Founders Grove
157 353.0 9.5 F-21, Humboldt, Founders Grove
158 353.0 11.4 Bomber, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
159 353.0 24.5 Godwood Creek, Prairie, Godwood Creek
160 353.0 14.5 Little Lost Leaner, Redwood, Lost Man Creek Drainage
161 353.0 12.9 Cottage, Humboldt, Founders Grove
162 352.9 13.5 Fusion Hollow, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
163 352.9 13.7 Bolling Stovepipe, Humboldt, Bolling Grove
164 352.8 N/A UF 106.75 LiDAR, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
165 352.6 10.1 Palisade, Montgomery, Lower Flat
166 352.5 16.6 T-51, Redwood, High perched bench 1000' above Redwood Creek
167 352.5 11.9 Roadside Pitchork, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
168 352.4 7.1 The Pole, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
169 352.3 10.1 Long Arm, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
170 352.2 9.7 GPS, Humboldt, New World Forest
171 352.2 12.5 Cone Top, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
172 352.2 14.8 HF 1 LiDAR, Humboldt, Harper Flat
173 352.1 12.0 Zephyr, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove
174 352.1 10.9 Ivory, Montgomery, Lower Flat
175 352.0 13.8 Remnant, Humboldt, Remnant Forest
176 352.0 N/A Melancholy, Montgomery, Upper Flat
177 351.9 N/A 61 LiDAR, Humboldt, South Fork Eel River
178 351.8 N/A F-24 LiDAR, Humboldt, Founders Grove
179 351.8 N/A North Slope, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
180 351.8 11.1 Puppy Burl, Montgomery, Upper Flat
181 351.8 14.8 Creaking Bear, Humboldt, Upper Flat
182 351.7 N/A PA 39 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
183 351.7 10.5 Jane Oxenham, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek
184 351.7 9.5 F-21, Humboldt, Founders Grove
185 351.5 16.3 False Giant, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
186 351.5 8.5 Trifecta, Humboldt, Miller Flat
187 351.5 N/A PA 50 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
188 351.5 N/A PA 41 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
189 351.4 13.8 Ruth Lore, Formerly known as "JS2", Jedediah, Ruthlor Gulch.
190 351.4 N/A Miller Creek #4, Humboldt, Miller Flat
191 351.3 14.8 Creekview Peninsula, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek
192 351.3 19.4 Wormwood Giant, Prairie, Browns Creek
193 351.3 17.2 Bushy Toe, Humboldt, Harper Flat
194 351.3 11.0 Thor Spire, Humboldt, Harper Flat
195 351.2 12.0 Mobius, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
196 351.2 17.2 Thunderbolt, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
197 351.2 N/A 55 LiDAR, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
198 351.2 11.7 Canfield, Humboldt, Founders Grove
199 351.1 N/A Enchantment, Humboldt, Miller Creek Flat
200 351.1 12.4 Two Headed, Formerly konwn as "Boundary Tree", Humboldt, Founders Grove
201 351.1 12.8 Tom McDonald, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek
202 351.1 14.0 Creekview, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
203 351.0* N/A T28, Redwood, McArthur Creek.
204 350.9 12.5 Tear Drop, Formerly known as "Mosque", Humboldt, Founders Grove
205 350.8 12.5 Kent II, Humboldt, Kent Grove
206 350.7 N/A Harold Ferm, Humboldt, Millennium Grove
207 350.7 14.6 Evelyn Ferm, Humboldt, Founders Grove
208 350.6 10.3 Tenador, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
209 350.5 N/A PA 46 LiDAR, Formerly known as "UT39", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
210 350.5 13.5 UT15, Humboldt, Federation Grove
211 350.4 N/A Soletude Heights, Redwoods, Soletude Grove
212 350.4 N/A Trillium Tower, Humboldt, Upper Flat
213 350.4 11.6 Gravel Bar, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
214 350.4 N/A Haystack Needle, Formerly know as "Expansion", Humboldt, Miller Flat
215 350.3 N/A PA 48 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
216 350.3 15.9 PC 107.2 LiDAR, Formerly known as "TT16", Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary. ~
217 350.3* 11.7 Javelin, Humboldt, Founders Grove
218 350.2 10.5 U-5, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
219 350.2 3.81 Scarecrow, Humboldt, Founders Grove
220 350.2 11.2 M-19, Montgomery, Lower Flat
221 350.1 N/A The Waiting, Formerly known as "Cattleguard", Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
222 350.1 N/A Calf Creek LiDAR#2, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
Notable Uncommon 340' class
106.65 349.9 10.6 North Pillar, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
106.62 349.8 18.4 Deadwood Giant, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
106.59 349.7 14.0 T25, Redwood, Redwood Creek
106.25 348.6 22.4 Melkor, Redwood, Redwood Creek
106.20 348.5 N/A TT14, Redwood. Upper Little Lost Man Creek.
106.16 348.3 9.6 Seaserpent, Humboldt, Harper Flat
106.16 348.3 11.0 Disco, Humboldt, Federation Grove
106.10 348.1 N/A S2, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.97 347.7 N/A T47, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.92 347.5 12.5 West Slope, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek. ~
105.92 347.5 12.0 Forty Four, Redwood, Forty Four Grove. ~
105.90 347.4 11.0 TT18, Redwood, Larry Damn Creek.
105.77 347.0 9.0 North Face, Prairie, Prairie Creek
105.75 346.9 14.0 JS4, Jedediah, East Fork Clarks Creek
105.58 346.4 13.5 Foggy Burl, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
105.50 346.1 14.0 TT17, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.47 346.0 16.0 Steep Hill, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek. ~
105.47 346.0 12.0 Slide Gulch, Redwood, Elam. ~
105.16 345.0 N/A Gemini, Prairie, Big Tree Grove. ~
104.85 345.0 12.5 Elam’s Beast, Redwood, Elam Creek
105.04 344.6 15.7 Hill Davis, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
105.68 344.6 10.8 Polysprout, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
105.01 344.5 N/A TT19, Prairie, Boyes Creek Tributary. ~
105.01 344.5 N/A T36, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek
104.85 344.0 12.5 Jim’s Tree, Redwood, Elam Creek. ~
104.85 344.0 13.0 McArthur Creek, Redwood, McArthur Creek. ~
103.88 343.6 9.0 Turkey Vulture, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.58 343.1 12.6 Soletude, Redwood, Soletude Grove
103.63 343.0 14.0 Larry Damm Tree, Redwood, Larry Damm Creek. ~
103.63 343.0 12.3 Redway, Humboldt, Whittemore Grove. ~
103.66 342.5 12.5 Ferny Glen, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove. Double Tree With Dead Top ~
103.66 342.5 11.0 ~ Deck Tree, Richardson. Grows within deck cutout on north side of visitor center
103.66 342.5 13.8 ~ Outhouse Tree, AKA 9th Tallest, Richardson, In reality this tree is more like the 457 tallest !
103.66 342.5 10.6 Backloop, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.15 342.5 13.5 Humboldt, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.24 342.0 N/A Broken Neck Gulch, Redwood, McArthur Creek. ~
104.24 342.0 13.3 Jedediah Smith, Jedediah, Stout Grove. ~
103.88 341.6 13.5 Butress, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.09 341.5 16.5 Cheatham Giant, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove,
103.79 340.5 10.0 Van Duzen, Grizzly, Cheetham Grove. ~
103.88 340.0 8.9 Whirlaway, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove

Michael Taylor

California Big Trees Coordinator
by M.W.Taylor
Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:53 pm
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Mississippi Tall Tree Listing

NTS, Hi all. I recently put together a list of the tallest trees from Ms. that I have measured with NTS standards. The listing contains the tallest of each species at different locations. Bob I have been meaning to get this for the past couple of years. I also in the near future will put more listings together form Ala, Fla., La., and Wisconsin. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:09 pm
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UNC Campus Trees


After calibrating my spiffy new Nikon 440 laser rangefinder I went out for a walk on the Chapel Hill campus of the University of North Carolina to measure some of my favorite trees. UNC is the oldest public university in the nation and many campus trees are hundreds of years old. A couple of years ago I created a virtual tree tour of UNC campus trees, and, when I have time, I love to walk the "long way" to my office via some of my favorite trees. (You can take the tree tour here: )

Not surprisingly, the campus trees have huge crowns but tend to be rather short. Here are a couple of pictures of one of the quads.

One of my favorite trees is a 14 foot, 11 inch CBH post oak. I measured it today at 86.9 feet.

Not far from the post oak is a tree laden with mistletoe. I wonder how many of the 100's of people who walk under it everyday know what mistletoe is.

The Davie Poplar is a 300+ year old tulip poplar with its own Wikipedia page. Named for a revolutionary war hero and the founding president of the university, the health of the Davie Poplar is said to tied to the health of UNC. It has been damaged by lightning and hurricanes, but it still healthy, if not hollow. It is cabled in a couple of spots and the hollow trunk was filled with concrete in 1996. I measured it to 99.3 feet.

UNC campus is home to the Coker Arboretum, maintained by the NC Botanical Gardens. ( ). The arboretum contains hundreds of varieties of plants, trees, and flowers. One of the most prominent trees is a spruce pine known as Walter's Pine. It is listed in the arboretum map as 98 feet tall. I was pleasantly surprised that its height was not super exaggerated as I measured it to 95.7 feet.

On the northeast side of campus is Battle Park, a wooded area that has supposedly never been cut. Will Blozan visited and wrote about some of the trees in battle park back in 2008:

Later that same year John Eicholz also visited Battle Park and spent enough time exploring there to establish a Rucker index for the campus:

While hiking along Battle Creek I remeasured the Monarch of the Forest to 121.4 feet. John got the exact same measurement in 2008. I also remeasured a sweet gum near the gravel parking lot behind Forest Theatre that he noted in his post. He measured it to 122.7 in 2008 and I measured it to 122.9.
Crown of the Monarch
Feet of the Monarch

Here are some other trees I measured along Battle Creek

Tulip poplar

Red oak

White oak
by pdbrandt
Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:34 pm
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Ms State Champion Magnolia (Single Trunk)

NTS, Friday after I measured the Meyers Live Oak I went up to the Ms Champion Magnolia for an accurate crown spread measurement and gps coordinates. I've been to this tree many times and yet I'm still in awe of its great size. It's difficult to measure due to a couple of factors- it grows in a small creek bottom on the edge of a hill that makes the spread a tough measurement. I drove a stake in the ground at mid-slope that was 4' high then pulled a straight line to the trunk and went up 6" to get a CBH of 17' 3.5", I then shot the Height a few times and settled on 111', using the sine method. I shot straight up through a small opening in the crown and confirmed the height. I then used stakes to measure the edge of the crown and made a north-south measurement, east-west measurement and a northeast-southwest measurement. The crown spread measurements were NS 61', EW 63' and NE-SW 75'. One bad note people are still carving initials in the trunk and although this is been happening for decades I fear that it will harm the tree someday. This is the largest single trunked Southern Magnolia in the United States that I can confirm. I did research looking for a larger one back in 06 and 08 but I couldn't find one. I have been going to this tree since 1992. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:22 pm
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Large Pond and Slash Pine, MS

NTS, I took out my boat today and launched in Bernard Bayou in Gulfport. I traveled east about 2 miles to a point just at the edge of Big Lake which is on the western side of Biloxi Bay near were several Rivers and Bayous converge in this area. The Forest at the point consists of about 100 acres of mixed species and some are starting to get that older growth look to them. On the very northern most point grows the largest Pond Pine that I believe exists in all of south Ms. It is the largest of its kind that I have ever measured with a CBH of 9', Height-72' and Crown Spread- 55.5' x 39'. The top had been blown off probably from Hurricane Katrina but still was an impressive specimen. I spied a nice Live Oak just south and a little west of the Pond Pine and measured it even though I knew it wasn't a 20' CBH. It was a beautiful tree with resurrection fern throughout its limbs which is common. The Live Oak measured 18' 1" just about what I had guessed. I went south and west looking at the many Loblollies, Sweet gum, Slash Pine, Magnolia, Loblolly Bay and Live Oaks just to name a few species. The Loblolly Pines were mostly in the 70-80' range will a few larger ones. I did find a triple of Live Oaks that were tall, one had a CBH of 11' 7"and two had heights to 72' which is very tall for such a narrow trunk, most likely because of being Forest grown. Last but not least I found a Slash Pine that is the largest one that I have ever seen in south Ms. and I've only measured larger ones in Central Ms at Bienville NF. The tree had the top blown out also and had some large Wisteria vines on it. I'm going back and cut them so they stop choking it. I could see damage from the vines so I decided back I'm going back and help it out. The tree measured CBH- 7' 6", Height-81' and Crown Spread- 60' x 45'. I then found another Live Oak that was around 70' tall and a CBH of about 17-18'. Some photos of the largest Pines of their Species in south Ms. and one of the nice Live Oak. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:49 pm
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LIDAR ground truthing in Duke Forest

I identified a handful of 140+ ft groves in Orange and Durham counties from the NC LIDAR data.

One site corresponds to a 141 foot tulip poplar along the Eno River in Hillsborough ( ).

Another corresponds with a not quite 140 foot loblolly pine grove in someone's front yard in Durham ( )

A third was a bit of a dud near downtown Chapel Hill -- the deciduous trees there were only ~120ft tall -- but it did lead to discovery of a 104.9 foot tall American Beech ( )

This morning on the way in to work I stopped at a trail head of the Durham Division of the Duke University Research Forest and Nature Preserve ( ). The Duke Forest comprises 7,020 acres of land in 3 counties split up into 6 main tracts of land. The land is open to limited recreational use.

Here's the LIDAR map showing a 145 LIDAR hit off a trail less than 1/2 mile from the trail head.

I walked through a dense pine forest less than 75 years old to reach the site and wondered as I walked if there could really be 140ft trees nearby. Well, the LIDAR data did not disappoint. I found an area of older loblolly pines near a small creek. The first pine I measured was 139.1 feet tall. A second pine measured 142.8. Nearby was a tulip poplar that seemed a bit out of place. It measured in at 131.5 feet tall.



I have just one more 140 ft LIDAR site in the area to visit, which happens to be in another division of Duke Forest. Hopefully it will not disappoint.
by pdbrandt
Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:52 pm
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Whitewater River NC

The Whitewater River is one of the tallest waterfalls in the Eastern United States, listed at 411', but with punctuated drops combing to form that figure. The forest appears at times to be old growth and appears at others to be mature second growth. The fattest trees are dead hemlocks, so it appears that it was definitely slectively logged for the most part. The Coon Branch Natural area borders this area to the south, at about the NC/NC state line. I had previously measured the SC side and Coon Branch has been visited numerous times by ENTS.

red hickory NLT 116.5'
pignut hickory NLT 108' NLT 110' 117.6' 122.4' 125.6'
mockernut hick NLT 115' 112.3' 113.9'
black oak NLT 108'
black locust NLT 120' NLT 120' 124.1'
white oak NLT 115'
red oak 119.4' 122.5' 124.2'
chestnut oak NLT 104'
red maple 110.7'
silverbell 78.1' 85.6'
persimmon 85.9'
beech 118.5'
hemlock 120.0'
sourwood 91.6'
green ash? 106.1' 123.3'
Fraser magnolia NLT 94'
white pine 131.4' 138.2'
tuliptree 123.0' 133.8' 134.1' 142.9'

I didn't spend quite enough time there for a Rucker.

by bbeduhn
Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:37 pm
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Oak Alley Vacherie Louisiana Re-Visit

NTS, I have been in contact with owners of Oak Alley and they asked me to come back down to measure the Live Oaks in the back of the Mansion. I decided to take advantage of our 70 degree weather and went this past Saturday. There have been some questions as to the ages of some of these trees and I'm to help them with this project. I measured 23 Live Oaks on the property and have concluded that 8-9 trees south of the house where most likely planted at or around the time of construction of the Mansion 1837-39. Although this is a let me make this clear an ESTIMATION I believe it to be close. The remainder of the trees planted from the Mansion south to the back of the property were most likely planted by the Stewarts in the late 1920's. You can see the size differences of the Oak in the photos. I also measured two of three Live Oaks east of the Mansion at the Overseer's Cottage and they to would have planted at or just after construction 1837-39. This would make all of the largest trees in the photos around 170 years old. The Live Oaks in the front of the Mansion forming the great Alley are much larger than these trees in the back. Now as for measurements I'll start with the largest. CBH- 19’ 4”, S- 105’ x 78’, H-70’ CBH- 19’ 3.5”, S- 112.5’ x H-97.5’ CBH- 19’ 3”, S-154.5’ x 84’, H-79.5’ CBH- 19’ 2”, S-108’ x 99’, H-66’ CBH- 17’ 6”, S-118.5’ x 88’, H-80’ C-17’ 6”, 102’ x 99’, 69’ C-17’ 1”, 123’ x 83’, 63’ C-16’ 1”, 131.5’ x 117’, 64.5’, C-14' 6", 142.5' x 69', 75' All of these Live Oaks have older growth characteristics, thick bark, larger limb mass, root mass, etc. The two larger Live Oaks at the Overseer's Cottage measured CBH- 17' 10", SP- 111.5' x 96', H-57', CBH-15' 1", S-99' x 84', H-60'. The remainder of the trees were much younger and although some are getting CBH to 16' they just don't have the older characteristics. CBH- 16'7, C-15' 7", C-15' 2", C-15', C-14' 11", C-14' 5", C-14' 4", C-12' 8", C-12' 1", C-11' 7", C- 9' 11", C- 9' 11". Some photos with the different trees. Oh and an added surprise a huge Water Oak that was at least 16-18' CBH. I'll measure it the next time I go back and some flowers were in bloom. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:14 pm
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Arizona - southern

Southern Arizona – Next stop was to pick up a brother and sister-in-law at the Phoenix airport. Then after a couple of days visiting relatives in the Phoenix area it was onto the Tucson area where we made camp at the Gilbert Ray Campground at the Tucson Mountain Park. It is a nice campground albeit a little too large for my taste but the size did not seem scare away the coyotes who serenaded everyone all night and every night. This park is a county park and contains more than 16,000 aces and shares a common border with a unit of the Saguaro National Park. Actually the western portion of the national park was carved out of this Pima County run park. We camped here for several days and made visits to the nearby Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, Saguaro National Park –West (Tucson Mountain District), and the Arizona State Museum on the campus of the University of Arizona in Tucson.
The Desert Museum is an absolute delight to visit and concentrates and anything Sornoran. It is the best regional natural history facility I have ever visited. For more information see:

The next stop was the Saguaro National Park to see the best examples of a Saguaro Forest. I was last here in 2004 and was somewhat perplexed at the poor condition of this iconic cactus. Last visit they were green and plump and now many were brown and emaciated looking. I was told that and extended cold snap( 20 hours of subfreezing temperatures with a low 0f 17 degrees) a couple of years previously was the cause.

Saguaro forest near the visitor center

The biggest examples of species measured are listed below:
Saguaro (Carngiea gigantea) 5.8’ x 42.3’
Octillo (Fourquieria splendens) # x 19.9’
Desert Ironwood (Olneya tesota) 3.0’ x 20.9’
Yellow Paloverde (Parkinsonia microphylla) 1.7’ x 20.1’, 2.0’ x 18.2’
From left: Octillo 19.9', Saguaro 22.9', Octillo 18.7'

The Yellow Paloverde pictured below is also know as Foothills Paloverde. The Blue Paloverde ( Parkinsonia florida ) is the state tree of Arizona. I saw several impressive ones in landscaping contexts but did not see any to measure in the wild.
Yellow Paloverde (Parkinsonia microphylla) 2.0’ x 18.2’. It should be noted that the green bark photosynthesizes.

For more information on the National Park see:

The next stop was at the Arizona State Museum on the campus of the University of Arizona. Their collections of native American pottery and textiles are quite extensive. We spent almost the whole day inside and I was chagrined to find out upon leaving that the campus is actually an arboretum. At least 500 species, both native and non native, are tagged and mapped so you can easily find them.
See the below link for more information:

We then moved to the northeast side of Tucson with the intentions of visiting the Sabino Canyon area of the Coronado National Forest. This area proved way overcrowded so we went on to the Molino Basin Campground which is right on Catalina Highway. This road leads to the village of Summerhaven, a ski area, and access to Mt. Lemmon, the highest peak in the Santa Catalina Mountains at 9,157 feet. The Aspen Fire of 2003 fire really changed the scenery by burning 85,000 acres in the area.. Our campground was at 4,400 feet elevation set next to a dry wash in an oak/grassland setting. It is about a twenty mile drive to the ski area at 8200 elevation feet with plenty of vistas and trail heads along the road. It was easy to spot Arizona Cypress from the highway. Less easy was getting close enough to get some measurements. I finally settled for a small stand next to the road and still had to have some help to navigate over the boulders.
The biggest examples of each species measured are listed below:

White Fir (Abies concolor) # X 88.8’
Velvet Ash (Fraxinus velutina) 5.4’ x 64.0’
Arizona Cypress (Hesperocyparis arizonica) 9.3’ x 77.8’
Alligator Juniper (Juniperus deppenea) 6.3 x 43.4’, 6.8’ x 39.3’
Ponderosa Pine (Pinus ponderosa var. brachyptera) 12.0’ x 92.0’
Fremont Cottonwood (Populus fremontii spp. fremontii) 11.8’ x 51.2’
Quaking Aspen (Populus tremuloides) # x 48.8’
Rocky Mountain Douglas-fir (Psuedotsuga menziesii var. glauca) 5.4’ x 100.7’
Arizona White Oak (Quercus arizonica) 4.9’ x 26.8’
Canyon Live Oak (Quercus chrysolepsis var. chrysolepsis) 8.5’ x 35.6’ x 62’(acs)
Emory Oak (Quercus emoryi) 5.8’ x 40.0’, 6.2’ x 35.4’
Brother Chuck and sister-in-law Denise standing next to the Canyon Live Oak from the list above.

For our next stop we camped at Roper Lake State Park near Safford, AZ. Pleasant enough campground filled up with birders from throughout the world. It features a hot spring with public bathing access. We were again serenaded by coyotes and two species of owls during the night. While there we visited Kartchner Cave State Park, a recently discovered cave (1974), acquired (1988)and opened to the public (1999). It appears to me they did a good job. See the following link for more information:

We spent most of the time in the Pinaleno Mountains nearby. This is one of the “Sky Islands” and is also in the Cornado National Forest. Southern Arizona has a number of mountains ranges called sky islands similar to oceanic islands that have examples of endemic flora and fauna except these are isolated by the surrounding deserts. The highest point is Mount Graham at 10,720 feet and some of the higher elevation access roads were still close by snow
One afternoon while I was relaxing along the trail enjoying the pine scent with warmer air rising from the desert a tree downhill from me lit up like a silver jewel. It was a Silverleaf Oak (Quercus and I immediately understood why it is used as an ornamental in the southwest.
Another time doing the same thing I got into needle counting in the fascicles on limbs that had been brought down during the winter. I got counts of 3, 3/4, 4, 4/5, and 5. I soon located the source of the five needle tree(s) in a small grove nearby. It was Arizona Pine (P. arizonica) a five needle hard pine.
I apparently had stumbled into an area where the Ponderosa Pines and the Arizona Pines are hybridizing. If I had not made the needle count i would not have picked out the Arizona Pines. Earlier in the Santa Catalina Mountains I also found one branch containing 5 needle fascicles but could not pick out which tree it came from.

The largest of the various species measure are listed below.

Arizona Alder (Alnus oblongifolia) 9.8’ x 105.9’ (top out)
Arizona Pine (Pinus arizonica var. arizonica) 7.9’ x 81.4’
Ponderosa Pine (Pinus ponderosa var. brachyptera) 7.2’ x 87.0’
Rocky Mountain Douglas-fir (Psuedotsuga menziesii var. menziesii) # x 145.0’, 10.7’ x 88.0’
Silverleaf Oak (Quercus hypoleucoides) 5.4’ x 36.4’
A notable tree in this list is the Arizona Alder. If the main leader had been present it would have approached 125 feet.

After leaving the Pinalenos we drove down to the Dragoon Mountains also in the Coronado National Forest. Mount Glenn is highest peak at 7,520 feet. At the entrance to the campground (called Cochise Stronghold) we noticed prominent signs asking people to use designated camp areas and no firing of guns. It was immediately apparent that no one followed the rules and were camped willy-nilly wherever they thought was good shade plus there was plenty of gunfire from campers target shooting.
Before leaving I did measure a few trees and then left for the Phoenix area to get near the airport.

Below is a list of vegetation measured:

Golden Flower Century Plant (Agave chrysanta) # x 13.8’
Emory Oak (Quercus emoryi) 5.3’ x 41.5’, 6.3’ x 35.0’ (acs)

There are a number of species in Arizona belonging to the Agave family This was a very important plant family to the original inhabitants.There is a good possibility that they had a substantial affect on their distribution and may have been selectively chosen for desirable properties.
I came up with a tentative ID of Golden Flower Century Plant for the one pictured. After they flower they die. The flowering is a long time after the plants establishment but usually much quicker then 100 years. Several species are farmed in Mexico and one, the Tequila agave is the source of several popular drinks and a distilled spirit called Tequila.

Picture of the spike of a Century Plant.

After getting rid of my traveling companions I needed to work my way west toward Pearce's Ferry on the Colorado River. I found myself once again on US 89A and passing through the former Copper mining town of Jerome and lately a tourist spot. The town is perched on the east side of Mingus Mountain in the Black Hills Range. The town is a National Historical District and also contains Jerome State Historical Park.
See the following link:

On the west slope of the mountain I spied some impressive Alligator Junipers and stopped and did some measuring. This site is on the Prescott National Forest Lands.
The largest measured are listed below.

Arizona Walnut (Juglans major) 2.9’ x 28.9’
Alligator Juniper (Juniperus deppeana) 10.2’ x 49.9’, 14.6’ x 50.0’ (multi-stem tree)
Ponderosa Pine (Pinus ponderosa var. brachyptera) 7.1’ x 81.4’
Arizona White Oak (Quercus arizonica) 3.6’ x 29.1’
Gambel Oak (Quercus gambellii var. gambellii) 3.2’ x 26.0’

After crossing Mingus Mountain I continued heading west with a few side trips and eventually found my self on US 93 near Wikieup. A section of this highway is called the Joshua Tree Scenic Road. Somewhere on this highway I encountered Saguaro Cactus and Joshua trees growing in close proximity. This would be the boundary between the Sonora and Mohave Deserts. Continuing north with a destination Of Pearce’ Ferry on the Colorado River I passed another extensive Joshua Tree Forest at Grapevine Mesa on BLM land.

Below are listed the biggest Joshua trees ( Yucca brevifolia ) measured at the two sites.
Joshua Tree Forest Highway 3.8’ x 22.5’
Grapevine Mesa 5.6' x 26.7'
The Joshua Trees in these two areas did not match the size or vigor of ones I have seen in Joshua Tree National Park in California.

Joshua tree forest at Grapevine Mesa.

Soon I arrived at a campground within a mile or two of Pearce’s Ferry and spent a quiet nite but wondering how the river trip went. I knew if the trip kept their schedule they were camped about two miles upriver. My wife was on a five boat private trip as a boatwoman. Many of the others were canyoneers and could care less about the river except how quickly it could get them to the next side canyon so they could get up before daybreak, eat breakfast while hiking, gain elevation as appropriate and then rappel back down.
The group pulled in to the takeout ramp on schedule the next morning and looked appropriately bedraggled after 26 days on the river. My wife soon informed me that she led through some of the big rapids including Lava Falls and had a pristine lines. I was soon shown pictures of some of the a group rappelling down next to Deer Creek Falls (150'). The only misfortune was a broken ankle incurred while jumping into the Little Colorado River into water that looked deeper. The victim was a ER doctor so he splinted/immobilized his ankle and made the entire trip although there was no more canyoneering for him.
So ends my Arizona sojourn.
by tsharp
Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:04 am
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Colonel Leopold L. Armant Oak, LA

NTS, On my way down to Oak Alley I noticed a large Live Oak growing along Hwy 18 in Vacherie Louisiana. This road runs the length of the Mississippi from New Orleans to Baton Rouge. I had enough time on my trip back home to stop and measure this beautiful tree. The grand oak is located at the old Armant sugar Plantation which burned in 1969. The tree measured CBH- 22' 4", Crown Spread- 132' x 120' and Height- 70'. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:57 pm
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The only example of a weeping sequoia living in the forest?!

In contrast to the Tunnel Tree, the record wide giant sequoia in my previous post, follow photos of a slender weeping sequoia growing in Alder Creek Grove, according to Wendell Flint: “the only living example of a weeping sequoia living in the forest. Other weeping sequoias are cultivated in nurseries. The branches of this tree fall directly downward, so that the tree is a skinny column. It is a juvenile tree, and since it is so rare and so easily harmed, I’m not saying where it is.” (To Find the Biggest Tree, 2002, Alder Creek Grove chapter, page 79). Wendell Flint credits his cousin and hiking companion Robert Bergen for spotting the weeping sequoia.

As with the Tunnel Tree I haven’t seen photos of this one before. Hope you find them interesting. Giant sequoia adjectives such as majestic seem out of place when looking at the weeping sequoia. I read in The Giant Sequoia of the Sierra Nevada (1975) that a specimen in Roath Park in Cardiff, Wales was labeled “the ugliest tree in Britain” :)

Have you seen or heard of a weeping sequoia growing wild someplace else?
Or could this be the singular one?

by F.Jakobsson
Sat Jan 26, 2013 6:19 pm
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Re: Tunnel Tree - a remarkable sequoia

All five photos attached are of the Tunnel Tree viewed from different angles and distances.
As you will notice, it looks quite normal when seen from above.
If you’re standing below and facing the Tunnel Tree, the Paradise Ridge Trail is about a minute’s walk away to the right.
(In case you wonder about the editing of my initial post, it consisted of adding a copyright symbol to the photo)
by F.Jakobsson
Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:49 pm
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Impressive Bur Oaks (OH)

With its deeply furrowed bark, distinctive leaves, fringed acorn caps, and to borrow a term from Bob Leverett, its inherent “Oakness,” the Bur Oak is right up there with my favorite trees.

This behemoth resides alongside an old stagecoach route in Ault Park, Cincinnati.


sheet of paper.jpg

straight up bark.jpg

Bur Oak with Yellow Buckeye.jpg

straight up.jpg




6 Bur Oak 4 small.JPG

19 Bur Oak 3 small.JPG

- Matt
by Matt Markworth
Sun Feb 03, 2013 6:12 pm
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Live Oaks in Vacherie Louisiana Part 2 Oak Alley

NTS, In the last few weeks I have been involved with helping the owners of Oak Alley in Documenting their Live Oaks behind the Mansion. I have been down 3 times and finally finished up with the process. I measured a total of 31 Live Oaks that ranged from 9' CBH to 19' CBH. I gave them a listing of measurements, locations of the various Live Oaks and a estimation on the ages of the trees. Four of the trees I measured are 19' + CBH and I put them on the Live Oak Project listing. It has been a pleasure working on this project. I also measured the large Water Oak that I reported on in an earlier visit. The first photo set is of one of the Live Oaks near the Restaurant that measured CBH-17' 9", Height-52.5' and Crown Spread-115' x 114', a beautiful Oak with older growth characteristics. The second set of photos are of the large Water Oak that pointed out at 355, the Louisiana State Champion Water Oak points out at 397 if their measurements are accurate. The Water Oak measured CBH- 20' 5", Height- 82.5' and Crown Spread-97.5' x 91.5'. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:56 pm
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Fused redwoods

The redwoods’ amazing ability to fuse can create remarkable results.
Along Cal Barrel Road in Prairie Creek Redwood State Park a couple of redwoods has fused together at the base creating one impressive trunk.
Higher up the trunks separate.
I have not measured the trunk, but me leaning against the backside gives an approximation of the size.
by F.Jakobsson
Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:38 am
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Chattooga River, SC

I planned to do a good stretch of the Chattooga River and the East Fork as well but there was just too much quality in the two mile stretch I did measure from Burrell's Ford Campground to the East Fork of the Chattooga. This is the river where the movie "Deliverance" was filmed. It hasn't changed drastically since filming (other than most hemlocks dying). The part I measured is basically second growth with some old trees mixed in. There's a fair amount of old growth south of the campground (very tall and old white pines) that I'll try to get to some time this year.

The stars of the day were pitch pine and sourwood. The tallest sourwood shatters the state record from the SCMaxlist version that I have, but there's a chance a taller one has been found. The tallest pitch still falls a bit shy of the state record but is nonetheless impressive.

Oxydendrum arboreum sourwood 88.1' 91.0' 94.1' 95.2' 97.0' 97.3' 102.8' likely state record

Pinus rigida pitch pine 111.7' 115.1' 115.3' 115.5' 115.9' 116.6' 117.0' 117.1' 117.2' 117.3'
118.3' 120.0' 120.8' 121.5' 124.8' 128.0' 128.6' 130.3' 131.8'

Pinus strobus white pine 136.6' 137.8' 139.8' 140.8' 145.2' 145.5' 147.3' 146.2'
147.4' 151.9' 152.8' 153.7' 154.1' 154.1' 161.0'

Pinus strobus in Georgia (the other side of the river)
white pine 153.1' 165.9'

Liriodendron tulipfera tuliptree 125.7' 129.6' it was nice to see them outcompeted

Tsuga canadiensis hemlock 122.8' 133.0'

Quercus rubra red oak 127.2'

Acer rubrum red maple 105.1'

Magnolia freseri Fraser mag 89.0'

Betula lenta black birch 90.0' 1-march 2013 297.JPG 1-march 2013 298.JPG 1-march 2013 299.JPG 1-march 2013 301.JPG 1-march 2013 302.JPG 1-march 2013 303.JPG 1-march 2013 304.JPG 1-march 2013 305.JPG 1-march 2013 306.JPG 1-march 2013 307.JPG 1-march 2013 308.JPG 1-march 2013 309.JPG 1-march 2013 310.JPG 1-march 2013 311.JPG 1-march 2013 312.JPG
by bbeduhn
Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:12 pm
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Boy Scout Tree, Jedediah Smith Redwoods State Park

The hike to the Boy Scout tree is a nice 5.2 mile out and back hike:


Right away the Trailhead on Howland Hill Road is surrounded by car sized trees:


IMG_3343-3345-stitched (1).jpg



The whole hike is pretty epic, with this scene being typical along the trail:


After much hiking, if you are careful, you'll notice a huge crown looming above the trail, even though the tree itself is hidden by brush and intervening trees:


Finally the Boy Scout tree Itself


by Rand
Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:54 pm
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