Search found 155 matches

Return

Re: Valuing Forests

I suggest that this is a very difficult subject but very profound and is worthy of persuing.

When we think of the value of something, it's usually in the context of "value to us"- so we can think of the ways forests are valuable to humans and to the "health" of the ecosystem, stability of the climate, useful to our economy, etc.... and all of those are relevent to us- because if the ecosystem and climate are messed up it will hurt us.

But, if we weren't here- forests would still have value- value as an expression of the cosmic creative forces which relentlessly seem to try everything- everthing that can potentially be and given eternity and infinity, probably everything imaginable will occur- not for us- not as value to us- but for "higher purposes"- and by this I don't mean "spiritual values" which are also for us.

For me any discussion of values leads inevitably to metaphysical considerations.

What's it really mean to "have values"?? Until we can see the meaning of value beyond what it means to humans, we aren't thinking deep enough- once we can do that, we can have a better understanding of what values should mean to us.

Whatever.
Joe
by Joe
Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:49 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: What Should We Call What Nature Provides Us?

James,

I don't think our ancestors lives revolved around nature. They tried to tame it as much as we do today. Only they lacked the technology to make a serious impact on nature on a large scale. Sure there were exceptions among our ancestors, but for the most part I think this is true.

Ed

Sure, our ancestors like all animals strive to eat and breed and not be eaten- they didn't love the nature around them, they feared it but they also respected it presuming it was filled with spirits. They were limited by the few tools they had- sharp stones and wooden clubs.

I happen to consider that part of the human story superior to what we're up to now but of course there's no way back without WWIII and even then it won't happen.

To me- the Really Big Question is: can the amazing process of evolution move to a new level such that "modern man" can find a truly sustainable life style- or in another words- what is the carrying capacity of the Earth for technologially advance homo sapiens?

In a bigger sense- gazing across the cosmos- if only we could know what's out there- is it the case that on all planets where "intelligent life" develops- that this destructive phase must be passed through? Then a new equilibrium is reached where the intelligent species gets its act together?

If only some super advanced civilization out there would visit us with the facts- having recorded what happens, say, across the galaxy. In my fascination with evolution- I keep coming back to this idea- what is the potential of evolution? Where will it take us in the next million years?
Joe
by Joe
Mon Dec 13, 2010 10:13 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Decision looms for North Mills River, NC.

A decision will come soon on the logging project for North Mills River.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20101226/NEWS/312260051
http://www.wildsouth.org/index.php/public-lands/forest-watch/240-protect-and-restore-the-pisgah-


Oh, there they go again: "Bennie Riddle, president of the Western Carolina Quality Deer Management Program, said tree cutting is needed to improve wildlife habitat.
“The Forest Service has gotten so far away from managing the forest for a healthy wildlife population and healthy timber. We should be cutting the timber in the national forests,” Riddle said.

If only they just said the truth- they do it because they like cutting timber- because it's in their job description- because the local sawmills want wood- because the politicians pay attention to industries that give them money. At least then we could respect them- after all, there really isn't anything wrong with timber cutting in the right places- but when they don't admit it's just about cutting timber, and they use excuses like it's good for wildlife, or it protects the watershed, or counless other idiotic excuses, then my respect for them drops to zero.

As for wildlife, it may be good for enhancing deer populations only so they can be shot- but so what? How many deer hunters are out there? Should deer hunters rule the NATIONAL FORESTS? Or loggers? Or any other special interest group?

Yuh, they should just be honest, "we want to cut the timber because the mills need the wood and because hunters want to blast some deer".
Joe
by Joe
Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:45 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: We are Tree Hunters

Ed,

Well said. It is important that we periodically revisit the reasons we hunt and measure trees, both for ourselves and for others to better understand the appeal of the occupation. We hunt trees all the time, so the reasons are a given for ourselves, but not to the public at large. The better we can articulate our reasons and describe our craft, the more we will attract others. Good job.

Bob

We like big trees because they turn us on- but most people don't get it- which is why the scientific approach to measuring and evaluating big trees is extremely important and will help the rest of the world to understand why big trees and old forests are valuable- not just because of aesthetics but for many reasons- especially to let us better understand the full potential of nature- the nature that has created us. I find it crazy to go to church and not understand nature. Churches to me are fantasies- nature is real- very real- wonderful in many ways but also it has pain and suffering and death- and that is The Way.
Joe
by Joe
Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:06 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: "Living in the Anthropocene: Toward a New Global Ethos"

I prophesize that eventually the human race will overcome the damage, reduce its population and be back into a new sustainable harmony with the Earth- then that New Age will need a new name.

I spend a lot of time pondering all the other planets in the universe that have gotten at least as far as we have- I think built into the evolutionary process is the capability to overcome the horrific damage to their respective planets- which is probably inevitable as the intelligent species discovers the powers of technology- then they get beyond it, most of the time- an interesting question to the Gods would be: what % of the time does this happen?
Joe
by Joe
Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:50 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: "Forest bathing" as a therapeutic practice in Japan

this is why I like forestry, despite the bad weather, bugs, burreacrats, bad loggers, uncooperative landowners, bad markets, etc.
by Joe
Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:40 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: PBS documentary

If trees could talk, I'd ask them "what's it like to stand in one place for a very long time?". I am sure they are contemplating the sun moving across the sky while capturing its energy. When the soil is dry, the probably look forward to a heavy rain. But all those bugs crawling on them, eating their leaves and slowing chewing away at injuries probably is very irritating.

They might remind us that life as a tree is not easy- that when their forest grew into an old field, there were 1,000 trees per acre and now 100 years later there are only 60. Competing for air and water against so much competition is no fun!

But now that they're mature and have survivied all that--- the only thing they fear is the sound of chainsaws. Of course trees aren't very smart- they don't know what a chainsaw is- to them it's just the sound of some monster that quickly comes through the forest causing great distruction. If you try to explain to the tree that "it's just good forestry and we leave many trees", I don't think the tree you're talking with will appreciate being sacrificed after a century of struggle to be made into lumber, furniture or choped into chips and sent to a biomass power plant!

Yes, if only trees could talk.
Joe
by Joe
Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:26 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Sequoia/Kings Canyon NP- Giant Forest research 2011

Reading this has inspired me to upload one of my all time favorite paintings by Albert Bierstadt. It comes close to my vision of nirvana. I believe the name is "Giant Redwood Trees of California". The original is owned by the public museum in Pittsfield, MA. I think it's about 4' tall. When I first saw it I was stunned.
Joe

Giant-Redwood-Trees-of-California-large.jpg
by Joe
Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:10 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Texas Drought and Trees

Texans don't believe in global warming or evolution. Both are commy pinko attempts to enslave patriotic, gun toting, God fearing, homophobic Texans.
Joe
by Joe
Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:21 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

damage to forests

With Deaths of Forests, a Loss of Key Climate Protectors
New York Times
By JUSTIN GILLIS
Published: October 1, 2011

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/01/science/earth/01forest.html?adxnnl=1&ref=todayspaper&adxnnlx=1317464706-yipIgxIkAn/qNN3QjFPuBA
by Joe
Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:31 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Growing strong - Still-thriving forests buffer effects of cl

Growing strong - Still-thriving forests buffer effects of climate change

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/?p=95745&utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11_14_11%2520%281%29&utm_content=

Instead of being a mature forest, it appears that the Harvard Forest and, by extension, many of the forests across New England, are middle aged and still growing, said Steven Wofsy and Andrew Richardson. The two spoke about their research into forests and climate change as part of a Harvard Museum of Natural History lecture series on New England forests.
by Joe
Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:20 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: NJ Forest Harvest Issue

My experience here in Mass. is that- the problem between forestry people and people oppossed to harvesting on public lands almost always comes down to a bad attitude by the forestry people. If they did forestry in a very, very, very fussy way on public lands, there is no reason there should be much opposition- but typically, foresters on public lands, state and federal, act as if they're managing commercial timber lands- they carry out overly large harvests, do clearcutting, cut beautiful stands which the public loves- often this is just lazy, stupid forestry, not what forestry is capable of- thus, the strong reaction against it and against all forestry. Most states have pleny of forest land, much of which is way out of the way of the vast majority of the public- that's where the forestry work should be done- in cut over stands which aren't much to get excited about and by doing very fussy silviculture, they could make these stands look better! But no, they take the lazy stupid approach and ruin the potential good will of the public. Here in Mass. the state raped and pillaged a lot of our state forests- AFTER- they got FSC certified! Then when the public complained, they defended themselves- as if they did nothing wrong- as if the public is so stupid they just can't understand the brilliant work of "professional foresters"- duh! Good forestry looks good- or as a forester who once worked for the Sierra Club once said, "if the forestry work looks bad, it is bad" (saw this in the Club's cofee table book Clearcut).
Joe
(forester for 38 years)
by Joe
Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:16 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Explanation?

I bet it started growing on a tall stump- then the stump rotted away.
Joe
by Joe
Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:43 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

China’s Reforestation Programs: Big Success or Illusion?

China’s Reforestation Programs: Big Success or Just an Illusion?

China has undertaken ambitious reforestation initiatives that have increased its forest cover dramatically in the last decade. But scientists are now raising questions about just how effective these grand projects will turn out to be.
by jon r. luoma

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/chinas_reforestation_programs_big_success_or_just_an_illusion/2484/
by Joe
Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:02 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Viet Nam

I read a lot of English language news sites from around the world. One of the least sugar-coated when it comes to environmental news is Vietnamnews. They're brutally honest when it comes to environmental degradation both in Viet Nam and around the planet. I was impressed with this article which claims that they have increased tree cover in the nation from 32% to 40% since 1998. Considering some of the unflattering things that they have admitted about their ecological crimes since I've been following the site, I have to say I lean towards believing this particular claim.

http://vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/social-issues/220069/state-president-launches-tree-planting-festival.html

considering the immense crime of forest destruction by dropping 2,000,000 bombs on the country and agent orange by the US military, it hardly seems like anything the Vietnamese have done could compare
Joe
by Joe
Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:54 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: The Tree that Owns Itself

we should start a "forest liberation front"
by Joe
Mon Apr 02, 2012 12:47 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Jabba the Hutt Oak

dbhguru wrote:Ryan,

This tree definitely needs to be entered into a photo contest. I just haven't sorted out in my mind what kind of contest.

Bob


I often try to imagine North America pre pale face.... how many millions of really wild, strange looking trees were alive then!
Joe
by Joe
Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:21 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Checking in from the Blue Ridge Parkway

I suspect ticks are going to be horrible this year in the east. We essentially had no winter, especially in the south. On my backpacking trip this past weekend I only got one tick on me. I found it while I was showering when I returned home. It was fortunately tangled in my hair and had not imbedded before I found it. I killed it, of course. I never leave a living tick.

I have a system to deal with ticks:

* wear light colored clothing
* wear long socks and pull up over lower part of pants
* use lots of bug spray
* try to avoid brush
* periodically check oneself- and if with others, check each other
* bring along a tick removal tool- just in case- I bought one from Ben Meadows
* after leaving woods- remove those clothes and leave in back of truck or in plastic bag, change into fresh clothes
* when home, imediately take shower

Joe
by Joe
Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:52 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Sulfur Finding May Hold Key to Gaia Theory of Earth as Livin

"Sulfur Finding May Hold Key to Gaia Theory of Earth as Living Organism"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120515203100.htm

"ScienceDaily (May 15, 2012) — Is Earth really a sort of giant living organism as the Gaia hypothesis predicts? A new discovery made at the University of Maryland may provide a key to answering this question. This key of sulfur could allow scientists to unlock heretofore hidden interactions between ocean organisms, atmosphere, and land -- interactions that might provide evidence supporting this famous theory."
by Joe
Wed May 16, 2012 6:19 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Sulfur Finding May Hold Key to Gaia Theory of Earth as L

Joe,

I'm not sure I understand this Gaia hypothesis (will research more), but I don't know where science would be without the discovery and research of the isotope.(I somehow was accepted into a program of study at the Cary Institute of Ecosystem Studies a few years ago and one of my fellow students - all of them were in graduate schools - explained to me what an isotope was....)

Jenny

I like the Gaia concept- I wouldn't call it a theory- it's more of a philosophical perspective- a way of looking at the Earth as more than just the 3rd rock from the sun which happens to have life on it. It can't be seen as an organism, but it does have special properties that allow life to form and develop. It's more in the realm of mysticism than biology.

Though I don't think of the Earth as an organism, it could be argued that the rise of the internet is a kind of mind- a summation of all our minds the way the brain is a summation of all the neurons in it.

It certainly is amazing that such a thing as the Earth could arise from mere star dust.

I think the original idea goes back to Pierre Teilhard De Chardin, the French Jesuit paleontologist who wrote some very profound thoughts on the subject. His book, "Phenomenom of Man", is a mind blower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phenomenon_of_Man).
Joe
by Joe
Wed May 16, 2012 7:39 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

"Old-growth forests as global sinks"

"http://web.natur.cuni.cz/fyziol5/kfrserver/gztu/pdf/Luyssaert_et_al_2008.pdf"

http://web.natur.cuni.cz/fyziol5/kfrserver/gztu/pdf/Luyssaert_et_al_2008.pdf

"Old-growth forests remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere1,2
at rates that vary with climate and nitrogen deposition3. The sequestered
carbon dioxide is stored in live woody tissues and slowly
decomposing organic matter in litter and soil4. Old-growth forests
therefore serve as a global carbon dioxide sink, but they are not
protected by international treaties, because it is generally thought
that ageing forests cease to accumulate carbon5,6. Here we report a
search of literature and databases for forest carbon-flux estimates.
We find that in forests between 15 and 800 years of age, net ecosystem
productivity (the net carbon balance of the forest including
soils) is usually positive. Our results demonstrate that old-growth
forests can continue to accumulate carbon, contrary to the longstanding
view that they are carbon neutral. Over 30 per cent of the
global forest area is unmanaged primary forest, and this area contains
the remaining old-growth forests7. Half of the primary forests
(63108 hectares) are located in the boreal and temperate regions of
the NorthernHemisphere.Onthe basis of our analysis, these forests
alone sequester about 1.360.5 gigatonnes of carbon per year. Thus,
our findings suggest that 15 per cent of the global forest area, which
is currently not considered when offsetting increasing atmospheric
carbon dioxide concentrations, provides at least 10 per cent of the
global net ecosystem productivity8. Old-growth forests accumulate
carbon for centuries and contain large quantities of it. We expect,
however, thatmuch of this carbon, even soil carbon9,willmove back
to the atmosphere if these forests are disturbed."

and later in the paper:

"The present paper shows that old-growth forests are usually carbon
sinks. Because old-growth forests steadily accumulate carbon for centuries,
they contain vast quantities of it. They will lose much of this
carbon to the atmosphere if they are disturbed, so carbon-accounting
rules for forests should give credit for leaving old-growth forest intact."

So, fellow ENTS, this is one more powerful reason to retain all old growth forests everywhere.
Joe
by Joe
Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:45 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Grand Canyon National Park

Eli,

Great place.... I hiked in the ponderosa forest on the south rim, along the RR track going south-- in the spring of '94- the smell of the ponderosa was wonderful- and perfect weather!

Did you go to the bottom? The hike below Indian Gardens is even more intense- the other trail down, the South Kaibab trail, is even better, much steeper and no half way stop off like Indian Gardens.
Joe
by Joe
Mon Jun 04, 2012 11:21 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

tiny Ent discovered in my little forest

So, I was out in the forest between my house and the gigantic solar "farm" and discovered this tiny Ent. He seemed peaceful enough, so I left him alone. Maybe he took up residence to protect our 'hood from the monster solar "farm".
Joe
by Joe
Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:06 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: This forest has its own theme song

Jenny,

yuh, I guess those things too.... I recall how much I enjoyed the novel Shogun- at the beginning, a hack samurai is walking down a road- he sees a peasant, the peasant bows but just now quite low enough- so the samurai proceeds to dice up the peasant with his sword- shortly after that, the samurai goes to an ever so polite and sophisticated tea ceremony- that contrast really shocked me- we don't have that in the west- the brutes are brutes all the time, no tea ceremony for them...
Joe
by Joe
Sat Jun 16, 2012 3:24 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic