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Re: New finds - Cook Forest State Park, PA

Not Really. All I can hope for in the game is a career ending injury for Tom Brady.
by edfrank
Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:51 pm
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Re: Cook Forest, PA April 18-19


Here are some preliminary photos from the April 18th events:

Dale Luthringer talking about Alligators in the Clarion River

Bob Leveret explains the wheels on the bus go round and round

Look up in the sky! It's Underdog!

Steve Colburn karate chops a surprised Turner Sharp

What's everybody looking at?

Dale wondering in which direction the parking lot is located

Dale leading the hike in the wrong direction

by edfrank
Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:09 pm
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Re: Trees Cause Shade



An anonymous collective of solar organizations today declared a nationwide war on trees. In a faxed manifesto, the collective pointed to the shade-inducing qualities of trees, making such incendiary statements as, “trees: not nearly as majestic as they seem” and “a dead tree is a good tree.”

by edfrank
Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:06 pm
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Re: How do you know a tree limb is about the fall?

Well, it all worked out in the end, a little time was lost dealing with it on both sides, but no moneys exchanged hands.
The lawyer was lightly bruised, with minor scratches.

What did our Deputy Superintendent say to me? Don, visitors are informed upon entry that they entering a wilderness, and they can't have expectations of complete safety.

I bet that was an interesting discussion as you explained to your genius lawyer the subtle difference between Grand Canyon National Park and a Grand Canyon Theme Park.

What kind of virulently parasitic personality would try to capitalize on a few scratches and a bruise anyway?
by Rand
Sat May 19, 2012 9:50 am
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New area of Monroe SF, MA


Today I took a group of amateur naturalists on an old-growth trek in Monroe State Forest. There were 11 of them. The trek we took is shown on the topo below.


Once we entered the forest, the tree/root shapes intrigued all members of the group. I think most do their nature studies in young forests with boring trees. Not so today. Meet Mr. Beech perched on a rock.


The black and yellow birch root structures we saw blew everyone's mind. They are artistic and Tolkienesque.




In the uplands, some of the mature N. red oaks exhibited nice buttressing.


Chicken of the woods, anyone?


And there were the old hemlocks.



I measured a couple that I keep track of. The largest are in the 10 - 11.5-foot girth range, and heights to 120 feet at most. Not too shabby. Lots of bear sign. Some moose sign. Great day.

by dbhguru
Sat May 26, 2012 8:48 pm
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Re: Keeping Things Quiet In The National Parks

The best way to find quiet in a National Park is to seek out some solitude. You're not going to find that in an RV campground or a parking lot or paved overlook. You have to hike to find the solitude. The sounds of Man and his machines will vanish if you walk far enough in.

Sometimes, if you're lucky, you can even find peace and quiet in a semi-developed site. My wife and I had the parking lot at the summit of Cadillac Mountain in Acadia NP all to ourselves one night. We sat and watched a meteor shower (Perseids) turn into a meteor storm. One of the greatest things either of us ever saw. And just a couple of years ago we drove to an overlook above Yellowstone Lake and--surprise!--there was no one else up there! So we sat and soaked up the relative silence.
by jamesrobertsmith
Mon May 14, 2012 5:24 pm
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Re: Tree Humor?

Two trees, Acer and Fagus, get into an argument about carbon deposits at the local bank branch. Acer saya he is more Populus, and claims Fagus is just Quercus. Quercus says Acer is just a Tilia wannabee, and that he can kiss his Sassafras. Acer tells Quercus he doesn’t have the Juglans to carry out his threat. Quercus says “quit Carpinus about it and show me your real Castaneas”. Acer says he’s feeling Crataegus, and just wants to Larix awhile.

by Steve Galehouse
Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:09 pm
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Re: St. Augustine, the Old Senator, May 2012

Michael, From the listing of 200 Live Oaks in the 19-33' Circumference the Old Senator judging from the photo to be somewhere in the bottom half of the listing. I would estimate somewhere around 200 years old. Thanks for the photo. One example of a 300 year old Live Oak. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:29 pm
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Re: 6/9/12 champion tree event in Atlanta


Congratulations. I've heard John Lewis on news programs many times. He's a legend.

And on teaching NTS methods, congratulations. Every convert helps. Once folks witness how easy our flagship measurement method is to use, worries about the math disappear. Good thing I wasn't there to confuse them.

by dbhguru
Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:18 pm
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Re: Barred Owls

Mark, Really cool photo of the young Owls. I have a story to share about Barred Owls. Back in the mid 1980's I was hunting in the Pascagoula River Basin and as I walked along an old road I noticed something moving in the brush about 5' off the ground. I was a hundred yards or so when I first noticed the movement. As I got closer I relized it was a large Barred Owl 18" tall with a limb line tangled in his wing that had him tied up in the branches of a small tree. A limb line for those of you who don't know is a nylon line with a hook on one end tied to a lower limb of a tree overhanging the water used to catch fish. I guess the Owl got the fish and hooked himself and flew off with the line and later got tangled up distance from the water. He allowed me to cut the line and carry him 1/4 mile to my truck. I met up with my brother and he held him while we drove the 20 miles back to town. We brought him to a local vet who removed the hook treated and later released him. It was an experience I will never forget. The most amazing thing about the whole ordeal was that I didn't have my knife with me when I came accross him so I had to chew the nylon line with that Owl less than a foot from my face. He never once felt threatened by me and I was inches from his claws. I spent over two minutes chewing that damn line. I always loved Owls and was glad to be able to help one. He was one beautiful large Owl. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:03 pm
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Re: Great photos of the Southwest 150 years ago

SW Native Americans did 'manage forests' for their own ends, mostly for hunting purposes, and to some extent for clearing and agricultural uses. Were they the primary shaper of the forests that the first European settlers encountered? It's thought by most academics that they were not. The Southwest currently has, and for quite some time, has had, one of the highest ground strike (lightning) densities of anyplace in the world. For as much as we could determine from various 'proxies' for "recorded history", palynologists (those who analyze pollen, and associated microfossils such as charcoal) have been able to determine proportions and species present in the Grand Canyon area and the interplay of those with presence of charcoal/wildfire.
In retrospect, it's much easier seen than it was to determine. Given a more or less constant regime of lightning strikes, a wildfire regime of high frequency (random lightning downstrikes), low intensity (ground fuels kept at low levels) naturally emerged. The claims of early settlers of forests of large, clear, park-like forests was the result of such a regime.
The rush to populate the West doomed such forests...the knee high native grasses were soon consumed by introduction of cattle and sheep. The current situation where we have the opposite, low frequency/high burn intensity catastrophic wildfires (or worse yet, human caused fires like the Rodeo/Chedeski Fire caused by a lady lighting some brush because she was lost, on a forest service road and a native American starting a fire to earn money from fighting it), was the result of a turn of the century "perfect storm" of growing conditions that encountered a USFS/BLM/NPS fire management policy of immediate suppression. High density, young regeneration growing into 'froghair' forests, serving as fuel ladders to enable ground fires to climb into the old-growth ponderosas and go 'catastrophic' with the seasonal storms.
The Southwest has a seasonal weather pattern known as the Mondoon season, where from early July to late September, afternoon thunder and lightning storms pop up, with lightning and thunder that I guarantee will quicken your heartbeat. AND often lead to downstrikes, back by high winds. Now there's the formula for our nearly yearly SW wildfire season.
Sorry to ramble...
by Don
Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:51 pm
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Interior decorating with a tree


My brother found this somewhere and I thought it too neat not to share.
by Rand
Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:38 pm
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Re: Get a load of these numbers


After assisting us measured the ponderosa pine, the Doug fir, and the Colorado blue yesterday, Laura Swisher returned and cored three trees. She cored a large ponderosa, not the one we measured, but one we discussed growing on the trail. It is 390 years old. The champion pondy is 270 years old, and the slender Colorado blue is a surprising 227. Laurie will return to date the Doug fir.

In addition, we are laying plans for a joint FS-WNTS group of field trips next summer. WNTS will identify big tree-tall tree-old tree sites and then a joint team from the FS and WNTS will visit, measure, and document. Pretty neat. Just what I'd been wanting to happen for a long time.

by dbhguru
Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:56 pm
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222 Confirmed Redwoods Over 350 ft. LiDAR project concludes

23 364.9 13.5 Harriett Weaver, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
24 364.7 10.0 Randy Stoltmann, Humboldt, Harper Flat
25 364.7 16.0 Pyramid Giant, Humboldt, Harper Flat
26 364.5 10.7 Rocket Top, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
27 364.3 11.4 Valentine, Humboldt, Harper Flat
28 364.0 10.0 Pinnacle, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
29 363.4 14.0 Daedalus, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. Big ol' spike top.
30 363.4 11.1 Gultch Tower, AKA T7, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary.
31 363.2 16.0 Lost Hope, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
32 363.2 13.6 Tranquility, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
33 363.1 11.1 Crown Jewel, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
34 362.8* 9.5 Libby (A.K.A. Tall), Redwood, Tall Trees Grove. Dead top. Former title holder for tallest, 1963-1994.
35 362.7 13.2 South Fork, Humboldt, Founders Grove
36 362.7 14.7 Gray Poison, Humboldt, Patriarch
37 362.0 12.7 Graywacke, Humboldt, Harper Flat
38 361.8 12.6 Rockview, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
39 361.4 12.6 Rosebark, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
40 361.4 9.4 Alan Mitchell, Humboldt, New World Forest
41 361.3 11.2 Swamp, Montgomery, Montgomery Flat
42 361.3 10.8 Canoe Creek, Humboldt, Canoe Creek Flat
43 361.1 12.0 LIDAR RC 112.6, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. A.K.A. "T4"
44 361.0 15.5 Brutus, Humboldt, Harper Flat
45 360.8 13.8 John Muir, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
46 360.7 13.2 Mesa, Humboldt, Founders Grove
47 360.5 17.3 Montgomery Giant, Montgomery, Montgomery Flat
48 360.5 11.9 Lost Daughter, Humboldt, Harper Flat
49 360.2 15.7 Springing Buck, Humboldt, Founders Grove
50 360.2 12.8 Frank Atkins, Humboldt, Founders Grove
51 360.2 17.2 Redwood Creek Giant, Redwood, Redwood Creek
Rare 350' class
52 359.9 12.5 Outlier, Prairie, Cal Barrel Road
53 359.7 13.4 Miller Creek, Humboldt, Miller Flat
54 359.7 12.8 Dome Top, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
55 359.7 12.0 Baby, Redwood, Formerly known as "T11", Redwood Creek Tributary
56 359.6 14.7 Symmetrical Spiral, Humboldt, Founders Grove
57 359.6 11.2 Cinnamon Bark, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
58 359.4 13.5 Washout, Humboldt, Federation Grove
59 359.3 15.0 Dark Horse, Formerly known as "Polaris", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary.
60 359.3 11.3 Quadraspire, Montgomery, Lower Flat
61 359.2 11.7 Idril, Formerly known as Alluvium, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
62 359.1 9.8 Axis, Humboldt, Harper Flat
63 359.0 12.5 Sawtooth, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
64 358.6 9.9 Pinner, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
65 358.5 10.1 Scar Base, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
66 358.4 10.2 Bumble Bee, Humboldt, Harper Flat
67 358.4 10.3 Radford Stovepipe, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
68 358.3 12.3 Mattole Beast, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
69 358.2 11.1 Rifle, Humboldt, Harper Flat
70 358.2 13.2 Floodmark, Humboldt, Founders Grove
71 358.1 16.4 Matterhorn Giant, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
72 358.1 13.2 Warrior, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
73 358.0 9.7 Franz, Formerly known as "Riverview", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
74 357.7 13.8 A.C. Carder, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
75 357.5 9.5 Grazer, Formerly known as "Cornstalk", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
76 357.4 12.0 Watchtower, formerly known as "TT11", Prairie Creek Redwoods State Park, Browns Creek Tributary
77 357.4 11.1 Wishbone, Montgomery, Upper Flat
78 357.4 15.5 RC 109.20 LiDAR, formerly known as "T20", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
79 357.4 11.9 Sarah, Humboldt, Harper Flat
80 357.2 10.8 Candlestick, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
81 357.2 9.1 Graben, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
82 357.1 11.9 Parallel Pillars, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
83 357.1 11.9 Cirque Bowl Tower, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
84 357.1 15.0 RC 109.69 LIDAR, formerly known as "T18", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
85 357.1 13.5 Barricade, Humboldt, Harper Flat
86 357.0 13.2 Arrowhead, Humboldt, Harper Flat
87 356.7 9.0 Philip Burton, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
88 356.7 11.0 Alice Neighbor, Formerly Known as "H-25", Humboldt, Harper Flat
89 356.6 10.8 Satellite, Montgomery, Upper Flat
90 356.6 15.5 Emerald Giant, Redwood, Redwood Creek
91 356.6 14.6 Centennial, Humboldt, Remnant Forest
92 356.5 8.5 Marilona, Humboldt, Harper Flat
93 356.5 12.9 PA 8 LIDAR, Formlery known as "UT8"' Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
94 356.4 11.0 Gil-Gilad, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
95 356.4 15.9 New Hope, Jedediah, West Fork Clarks Creek
96 356.3 10.7 Scar Amber, Humboldt, Miller Flat
97 356.2 12.8 Navigation, Humboldt, New World Forest
98 356.2 10.9 William Harlow, Montgomery, Middle Flat
99 356.0 8.2 Valeria, Formerly known as "Cobblestone", Humboldt, Millennium Grove
100 355.9 12.9 Boyes creek Tree, Formerly known as "TT10", Prairie, Boyes Creek Tributary
101 355.6 12.5 David Elkins, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
102 355.5 13.8 Obelisk Neighbor, Formerly Known as "H-26", Humboldt, Harper Flat
103 355.5 15.0 RC 108.06 LiDAR, formerly known as "T31", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
104 355.5 14.4 William Kent, Humboldt, Kent Grove
105 355.4 N/A Calf Creek LIDAR 1, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
106 355.4 13.1 Laura Mahan, Humboldt, Founders Grove
107 355.3 9.5 Logjam, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
108 355.2 16.5 Odyssey, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
109 355.1 12.0 Imperial, Montgomery, Upper Flat
110 355.1 11.0 Tosca, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
111 355.0 16.0 RC 113.55 LIDAR, Formerly known as "Big Leaner", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
112 355.0 11.7 Bamboozle, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
113 355.0 13.5 Phoenix, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
114 355.0 10.9 Obelisk, Humboldt, Harper Flat
115 355.0 12.1 Creekside Cavern, Montgomery, Lower Flat
116 355.0 12.9 South Brown. Formerly known as "TT8", Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary
117 354.9 9.6 Crescent Moon, Montgomery, Upper Flat
118 354.9 13.8 Calf Creek, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
119 354.9 13.8 Maeglin, Formerly known as Chestnut, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
120 354.8 8.8 Greyhound, Montgomery, Upper Flat
121 354.7 15.5 Maya, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
122 354.6 12.0 Rhododendron, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
123 354.6 10.7 Shamrock, Humboldt, Founders Grove
124 354.6 12.5 El Deuce, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
125 354.5 N/A Offset Tower, Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary
126 354.5 11.5 Luke's Lookout, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
127 354.4 10.8 Quintuple Tower, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
128 354.4 8.8 Space Needle, Humboldt, Harper Flat
129 354.4 14.6 Bruiser, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
130 354.4 11.0 Luke's Lookout, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
131 354.3 16.9 Giant, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
132 354.3 13.9 Crescendo, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
133 354.3 13.5 Cinder Cone, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
134 354.3 9.7 Cannoe II, Formerly known as "Thimble", Humboldt, Canoe Creek
135 354.2 9.5 Tempest, Montgomery, Middle Flat
136 354.2 N/A PA 7 LiDAR, Formerly known as "UT7", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
137 354.1 15.2 Tree 139, Formerly konwn as "U-4", Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
138 354.0 14.6 Golden Vine, Formerly Known as "Yellow Vine", Humboldt, Founders Grove
139 354.0 10.4 Wounded Knee, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
140 353.8 11.7 Meanderfall, Humboldt, Founders Grove
141 353.8 14.0 Glass Castle, Formerly Known as "JS6", Jedediah, Mill Creek Basin
142 353.7 14.6 Jeanie Taller, Humboldt , Lower Bull Creek Flat
143 353.6 13.3 PA 49 LiDAR, Formerly Known as "UT49",Humboldt, Upper Flat
144 353.6 14.5 Bond Behemoth, Formerly known as "TT7", Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary. Huge tree with straight axis. Found by LIDAR.
145 353.6 13.2 Gemstone, Redwood, Emerald Creek
146 353.5 14.9 Obsidian, Humboldt, Founders Grove
147 353.5 13.0 Twister, Redwood, Larry Damm Creek
148 353.4 N/A Sediment, Humboldt, Founder Grove
149 353.4 3.54 Warm Winds, Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
150 353.4 11.0 PA 5 LiDAR, Formerly Known as "UT-5", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
151 353.3 9.0 Hairpin, Prairie, Foothill Trail.
152 353.3 11.7 Hans, Formerly known as "Riverfront", Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
153 353.3 9.0 Whippet, AKA "Bombardier", Humboldt, Harper Flat `
154 353.3 14.0 Carrie Salz, Humboldt, Founders Grove
155 353.2 9.7 Steeple, Humboldt, Harper Flat
156 353.2 11.0 Moundsprout, Humboldt, Founders Grove
157 353.0 9.5 F-21, Humboldt, Founders Grove
158 353.0 11.4 Bomber, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
159 353.0 24.5 Godwood Creek, Prairie, Godwood Creek
160 353.0 14.5 Little Lost Leaner, Redwood, Lost Man Creek Drainage
161 353.0 12.9 Cottage, Humboldt, Founders Grove
162 352.9 13.5 Fusion Hollow, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
163 352.9 13.7 Bolling Stovepipe, Humboldt, Bolling Grove
164 352.8 N/A UF 106.75 LiDAR, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
165 352.6 10.1 Palisade, Montgomery, Lower Flat
166 352.5 16.6 T-51, Redwood, High perched bench 1000' above Redwood Creek
167 352.5 11.9 Roadside Pitchork, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
168 352.4 7.1 The Pole, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
169 352.3 10.1 Long Arm, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
170 352.2 9.7 GPS, Humboldt, New World Forest
171 352.2 12.5 Cone Top, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
172 352.2 14.8 HF 1 LiDAR, Humboldt, Harper Flat
173 352.1 12.0 Zephyr, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove
174 352.1 10.9 Ivory, Montgomery, Lower Flat
175 352.0 13.8 Remnant, Humboldt, Remnant Forest
176 352.0 N/A Melancholy, Montgomery, Upper Flat
177 351.9 N/A 61 LiDAR, Humboldt, South Fork Eel River
178 351.8 N/A F-24 LiDAR, Humboldt, Founders Grove
179 351.8 N/A North Slope, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
180 351.8 11.1 Puppy Burl, Montgomery, Upper Flat
181 351.8 14.8 Creaking Bear, Humboldt, Upper Flat
182 351.7 N/A PA 39 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
183 351.7 10.5 Jane Oxenham, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek
184 351.7 9.5 F-21, Humboldt, Founders Grove
185 351.5 16.3 False Giant, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
186 351.5 8.5 Trifecta, Humboldt, Miller Flat
187 351.5 N/A PA 50 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
188 351.5 N/A PA 41 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
189 351.4 13.8 Ruth Lore, Formerly known as "JS2", Jedediah, Ruthlor Gulch.
190 351.4 N/A Miller Creek #4, Humboldt, Miller Flat
191 351.3 14.8 Creekview Peninsula, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek
192 351.3 19.4 Wormwood Giant, Prairie, Browns Creek
193 351.3 17.2 Bushy Toe, Humboldt, Harper Flat
194 351.3 11.0 Thor Spire, Humboldt, Harper Flat
195 351.2 12.0 Mobius, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
196 351.2 17.2 Thunderbolt, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
197 351.2 N/A 55 LiDAR, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
198 351.2 11.7 Canfield, Humboldt, Founders Grove
199 351.1 N/A Enchantment, Humboldt, Miller Creek Flat
200 351.1 12.4 Two Headed, Formerly konwn as "Boundary Tree", Humboldt, Founders Grove
201 351.1 12.8 Tom McDonald, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek
202 351.1 14.0 Creekview, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
203 351.0* N/A T28, Redwood, McArthur Creek.
204 350.9 12.5 Tear Drop, Formerly known as "Mosque", Humboldt, Founders Grove
205 350.8 12.5 Kent II, Humboldt, Kent Grove
206 350.7 N/A Harold Ferm, Humboldt, Millennium Grove
207 350.7 14.6 Evelyn Ferm, Humboldt, Founders Grove
208 350.6 10.3 Tenador, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
209 350.5 N/A PA 46 LiDAR, Formerly known as "UT39", Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
210 350.5 13.5 UT15, Humboldt, Federation Grove
211 350.4 N/A Soletude Heights, Redwoods, Soletude Grove
212 350.4 N/A Trillium Tower, Humboldt, Upper Flat
213 350.4 11.6 Gravel Bar, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
214 350.4 N/A Haystack Needle, Formerly know as "Expansion", Humboldt, Miller Flat
215 350.3 N/A PA 48 LiDAR, Humboldt, Patriarch Forest
216 350.3 15.9 PC 107.2 LiDAR, Formerly known as "TT16", Prairie, Browns Creek Tributary. ~
217 350.3* 11.7 Javelin, Humboldt, Founders Grove
218 350.2 10.5 U-5, Humboldt, Upper Bull Creek Flat
219 350.2 3.81 Scarecrow, Humboldt, Founders Grove
220 350.2 11.2 M-19, Montgomery, Lower Flat
221 350.1 N/A The Waiting, Formerly known as "Cattleguard", Humboldt, Middle Bull Creek Flat
222 350.1 N/A Calf Creek LiDAR#2, Humboldt, Calf Creek Flat
Notable Uncommon 340' class
106.65 349.9 10.6 North Pillar, Humboldt, Lower Bull Creek Flat
106.62 349.8 18.4 Deadwood Giant, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
106.59 349.7 14.0 T25, Redwood, Redwood Creek
106.25 348.6 22.4 Melkor, Redwood, Redwood Creek
106.20 348.5 N/A TT14, Redwood. Upper Little Lost Man Creek.
106.16 348.3 9.6 Seaserpent, Humboldt, Harper Flat
106.16 348.3 11.0 Disco, Humboldt, Federation Grove
106.10 348.1 N/A S2, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.97 347.7 N/A T47, Redwood, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.92 347.5 12.5 West Slope, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek. ~
105.92 347.5 12.0 Forty Four, Redwood, Forty Four Grove. ~
105.90 347.4 11.0 TT18, Redwood, Larry Damn Creek.
105.77 347.0 9.0 North Face, Prairie, Prairie Creek
105.75 346.9 14.0 JS4, Jedediah, East Fork Clarks Creek
105.58 346.4 13.5 Foggy Burl, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
105.50 346.1 14.0 TT17, Redwood Creek Tributary
105.47 346.0 16.0 Steep Hill, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek. ~
105.47 346.0 12.0 Slide Gulch, Redwood, Elam. ~
105.16 345.0 N/A Gemini, Prairie, Big Tree Grove. ~
104.85 345.0 12.5 Elam’s Beast, Redwood, Elam Creek
105.04 344.6 15.7 Hill Davis, Redwood, Tall Trees Grove
105.68 344.6 10.8 Polysprout, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
105.01 344.5 N/A TT19, Prairie, Boyes Creek Tributary. ~
105.01 344.5 N/A T36, Redwood, Tom McDonald Creek
104.85 344.0 12.5 Jim’s Tree, Redwood, Elam Creek. ~
104.85 344.0 13.0 McArthur Creek, Redwood, McArthur Creek. ~
103.88 343.6 9.0 Turkey Vulture, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.58 343.1 12.6 Soletude, Redwood, Soletude Grove
103.63 343.0 14.0 Larry Damm Tree, Redwood, Larry Damm Creek. ~
103.63 343.0 12.3 Redway, Humboldt, Whittemore Grove. ~
103.66 342.5 12.5 Ferny Glen, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove. Double Tree With Dead Top ~
103.66 342.5 11.0 ~ Deck Tree, Richardson. Grows within deck cutout on north side of visitor center
103.66 342.5 13.8 ~ Outhouse Tree, AKA 9th Tallest, Richardson, In reality this tree is more like the 457 tallest !
103.66 342.5 10.6 Backloop, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.15 342.5 13.5 Humboldt, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.24 342.0 N/A Broken Neck Gulch, Redwood, McArthur Creek. ~
104.24 342.0 13.3 Jedediah Smith, Jedediah, Stout Grove. ~
103.88 341.6 13.5 Butress, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove
104.09 341.5 16.5 Cheatham Giant, Grizzly, Cheatham Grove,
103.79 340.5 10.0 Van Duzen, Grizzly, Cheetham Grove. ~
103.88 340.0 8.9 Whirlaway, Hendy, Big Hendy Grove

Michael Taylor

California Big Trees Coordinator
by M.W.Taylor
Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:53 pm
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Ordway Pines, Norway ME Aug. 21, 2012

3 Great White Pines Ordway Pines 20120821 medium.jpg Tall Pines Ordway Pines Norway ME medium.jpg NTS,

Jack Howard and I visited this grove on this beautiful sunny day. Ordway Pines is featured in The Sierra Club Guide to the Ancient Forests of the Northeast, as the site of the greatest White Pines in Maine. This is a realistic claim, and Bob Leverett has measured a White Pine there to 152.5 ft. in 2006 or later, the tallest accurately measured tree in Maine. These huge towering White Pines are an awesome sight, soaring high into the sky far, far over our heads. We had to keep craning our necks to look up into the crowns so far above us.

The approach to this grove was quite unassuming, through an ordinary neighborhood, till we came to a sign saying “Ordway Grove” by a small dirt parking lot on Pleasant St. in Norway across from near the intersection of Pleasant St. with Maple St.

A trail leads into the grove, through a patch of Japanese Knotweed (I believe, called “Mexican Bamboo” in the site brochure). There are also native plants like New England Aster, which was starting to bloom. The trail enters the grove by an old stone wall, by which a large Red Oak grows. So far not very impressive. But go a few steps up the trail and the great Pines appear, seeming to be impossibly tall, far taller and larger than the Bowdoin Pines. These were the largest and tallest trees we saw on our New England trip.

There are not very many of these great White Pines, maybe 20 or 30 trees, in densely packed groups. The big Pine area covers about 2 or 3 acres of the 9-acre Ordway Grove. The big Pines are easily over 200 years old, with the oldest possibly 300 years old or more. They have rough bark to high in the canopy, rugged old windswept crowns as typical of great old growth White Pines. The area where the old Pines grow has classic old growth characteristics like snags, coarse woody debris (old downed logs in varying states of decay), pit and mound topography, various types of Fungi. The rest of the Ordway Grove is mainly 2nd growth.

White Pine is the dominant tree in the oldest part of Ordway Grove. Associate trees include Hemlock (some big trees), Beech, Yellow Birch, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, Striped Maple, Red Oak.

I measured several trees, and due to difficulties in seeing the tops, as trees are in leaf, could not see the highest points of the trees. Hence, the heights listed here are lower than the actual heights of the trees.

Trees measured:

White Pine 135 ft. +
White Pine straight up shot at least 120 ft. to lower crown, 32.4” dbh, this tree next to White Pine snag
White Pine in group of 3 tall White Pines, straight up shot, at least 135 ft. into crown
White Pine 140.4 ft. by Ice Road Trail, snag next to this tree
White Pine 143 ft. in same group
White Pine 141.7 ft. in same group
White Pine 128.2 ft.
White Pine 37.5” dbh, rough bark to lofty height
White Pine 137.2 ft. fairly slender
White Pine 132 ft. in group of 3
White Pine 141.5 ft. across Main Trail from biggest White Pine
White Pine 140 ft. + (could not see top, tree taller), 48” dbh, biggest tree in grove, biggest tree seen on New England trip
White Pine about 120 ft. at edge of younger White Pine group
Red Oak 31.9” dbh, by Main Trail

After reluctantly leaving this glorious grove, Jack and I continued west toward New Hampshire, on our way back to North Syracuse. The route west, on ME route 117 to US route 302 toward New Hampshire, went through some very beautiful country, with low mountains, lakes with shores lined with tall White Pines. Along the roads were seemingly countless groves of tall fragrant rough-barked White Pines well over 100 ft. tall. It was an enchantingly beautiful drive, and towns like Bridgton, ME, Fryeburg, ME are filled with big tall White Pines. Large picturesque Pitch Pines are mixed among the White Pines in some places.

We pulled off of Rt. 302 in Bridgton (to get a tail gating truck off our back), and stumbled across beautiful Shorey Park by Highland Lake. In this park was a grove of tall White Pines rising out of a lawn, and I measured an average one, no taller than its neighbors, to a height of 124.4 ft. There are White Pines like this everywhere in this western part of Maine.

I am enclosing 2 pictures of the Ordway Pines taken by Jack Howard with his cellphone camera.

Tom Howard
by tomhoward
Sat Sep 01, 2012 1:13 pm
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How high is Mount Harvard and attendant implications?


Mount Harvard in the Collegiate Peaks area of the Sawatch Range of the Colorado Rockies is the 3rd highest peak in the chain. Its height on modern lists is usually given as 14,420 feet. When Massive and Harvard were vying for the number two spot, with Massive given as 14,421, a single foot of elevation was critically important. Below you can see what the current NGS datasheet shows. Note the 14,421 figure at the top. However, if you read far enough you see that the benchmark is 6 feet below the actual summit. Adding the 6 feet gives a height of 14,427. That, I presume, is the mountains best determined height on NAVD88.



I expect that future listings for Mount Harvard from many interested parties will present a helter-skelter combination of heights: 14,420, 14,421, and 14,427, and sometimes two of these figures on the same page as I've seen on So, what is my point in presenting mountains as opposed to tree heights on the BBS? We in NTS need to constantly be reminding readers how we make our tree measurements and not be timid in pointing out the flaws in how most others do it. We can't let ourselves tire of the message or the numbers deluge on the Internet will dilute our contributions, often negating their value. You have to dig deep to uncover the facts around a NGS elevation. You can sort it out if you persist, but misinterpretations are common, and the proliferation of old and misinterpreted data on the Internet has gone beyond proliferation to explosion. How can we learn from the NGS experience? NGS is the source of the most accurate geographical positioning information available to the public?

I will now return to tree measuring.

by dbhguru
Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:27 am
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Acorn Comparison Photo

Acorn Comparison Photos posted by Nebraska Statewide Arboretum


Acorns, top row: pin oak, chinkapin, Liaodong, shingle, swamp white and white oak.
Acorns, middle row: black, red, English, chestnut and dwarf chinkapin oak.
Bottom three acorns are all from bur oak trees.

Collected late August 2012 by Ryan Armbrust in Lincoln. (largest acorn is 1.5” long)

by edfrank
Fri Aug 31, 2012 2:50 pm
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The Charles Ives Acoustic

On a muggy and hot day in August, I recorded three soundscapes outside of the studio of Charles Ives (1874-1951). Each soundscape was captured during a different time of the day; Part I: Morning, Part II: Noon, and lastly Part III: Evening.

My goal was to record examples of the biophony and surrounding acoustic that Ives would have heard while composing in his studio on a typical summer’s day or evening. His music was intimately linked to the landscape, history, philosophy and literature of Connecticut and Massachusetts, and he held the conviction that the whole world of sounds was open for experiment and use. Many of his compositions reveal his imitation of nature, his taste for experimentation to represent, his ability to see beyond, and his reverence for God.

The future of the Ives property is currently unknown. Concerned that I may not have an opportunity to visit the homestead in the future, I decided to make my visit, to honor the man and composer with whom music history did not catch up with until the 1960’s.

Here is an article from the Wall Street Journal "Seeking to Save Composer's Retreat"

Part I: Morning

Part II: Noon

Part II: Evening
by michael gatonska
Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:31 pm
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Re: Medicine Bow - The Narrative

You and Monica indeed should feel proud in having spent so much time above 10,000'! And in such fine wildernesses as you report of while in Medicine Bow. Crystal clear views (well documented by your new camera!) of mountain and rock, vegetation and water does wonders for us in urban expanses.
I spent much of the 60's through the 80's hiking above 10,000' and it's very fine, wherever you find it. I'm attaching an image from the area (near Desolation Wilderness not far from Lake Tahoe) where I'll be next month, with similar sense of untrammeled wilderness...

Loon Lake for Bob.jpg

Loon Lake Closeup.jpg

Loon Lake is around 7000', and still some distance from the Sierra Crest, but is characterized vegetationally as the upper end of the classic mixed conifer forest, with healthy stands of numerous five-needle pine species.
The snow visible here and there in northern exposures (photo is facing South), from a recent 6" October 5th snow storm. Sometimes we get caught, sometime it's yellow jackets and black bears...but we love it all the time!
by Don
Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:16 am
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The Moosewood Tree

“The Moosewood Tree”

When fall had but shut the door and headed out,
And changing skies roiled like a mind in doubt,
I trekked an autumn grove, alone, apart—
And sought a golden leaf to woo my heart.
But not one yellow leaf lay on the ground
(Those crinkling under my feet were brown)—
The autumn leaves were out of reach, alas,
Held tauntingly by ash and sassafras
And maples tall. I had near left my plight,
When there, between the trunks as dark as night,
Shone through a rare moosewood tree.
It looked as lost in that far place as me—
It surely paled amidst that noble crowd,
Not half as tall or old, not near as proud
As all the beech and oak (the autumn wilds
Leaned over it, as though it were a child),
But how its leaves were bright! A lovely gold,
The loveliest that day I did behold.
And low they hung, like the fruits of Eden’s tree,
But not weighed down with a heaven lost to me,
But flitting freely in an earthly breeze—
But in my reach, the same, at a poor man’s ease.
I picked the leaf as day sunk behind the wood—
But I had my own light to do me good.
I’ll not forget, that on that autumn day,
My mind roiling like skies at season’s change,
Only the moosewood bent on knee for me
And shared its only gifts so readily.
by RyanLeClair
Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:38 pm
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Re: Tallest Known Sugar Pine Now Back In California

Michael ...

I was just going to post about this, to let people in on your real secret - lol

Hey everyone, I just figured out Taylor's secret to finding tallest trees. It's Nitrogen !!!

He must be sneaking around the forests with bags of high Nitrogen fertilizer, pumping the growth, then coming back in a few years after they rocket up there.

Ha !!! Just a wild thought today.

Seriously though, sweet find. And hopefully one more soon to be 80 meter tree for the USA as a backup species.


Yes that works. Even better method of increasing a tree's height is to climb it (or have somebody climb it for you) and tie on a new fake leader made of fiberflass and simulated foliage. A 20.2 foot extension pole added to Hyperion would make it a 400 footer. The new leader is immune to rot, drought and insect attack.

by M.W.Taylor
Sat Sep 29, 2012 4:57 pm
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Re: Deer 'cool' response of trees to warming climate

Lee, Wow really cool study! So the Fir and Spruce will hold on for a while longer than first thought but then will dramatically die off. My friend in northern Wisconsin plants Oaks and has to protect them with moisture tubes. They work well to help with early growth and keep the Deer from eating them. Well I'm doing my part to help with Global warming. I'm harvesting as many Deer as law Permits, in several States. :) Larry
by Larry Tucei
Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:56 am
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American Chestnuts, Pepperell, MA


I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. Bear with my while I try to figure out all of the bells and whistles.

I found two mature American chestnut trees behind my house in Pepperell, MA. These are not the average scrawny root sprouts. I figured I'd share with everyone since there is a dearth of material on American chestnuts on this site.

The two trees are full-sized and appear to be from new seeds, rather than from shoots. The larger tree has a girth of 26 inches; the smaller is 17 inches. I haven't measured their heights but I think they are both in the 40-45 foot range and are blight free. This entire area is filled with chestnuts of varying sizes but these two are by far the largest. I have already contacted The American Chestnut Foundation about them.

You can see a bunch of pictures here:

I also uploaded an attachment of the larger tree. I'm trying to figure out the gallery situation.

The larger one dropped burs in September; the smaller one did not flower because it's under canopy. Since I only discovered them in late June, I don't have pictures of the flowers. This fall I was only able to find one viable seed on the forest floor; most of the seeds were sterile. I'll plant it in a pot next spring.

I'm confident that TACF will reintroduce blight-resistant chestnuts into the wild in the coming decade. They have made a lot of progress in the last 35 years to bring back this iconic tree. The Redwoods of the East will rise again.

Hope you enjoy.

by EMorgan
Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:08 am
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The Sgerm Spruce – the tallest native European tree?


The Sgerm Spruce (Sgermova smreka) in Ribnica na Pohorju, west of Maribor, Slovenia, is named after the farm where it is located.

The tree is quite well known and cited as one of the tallest (or even the tallest) Norway spruce ( Picea abies ) in the world. At an altitude of around 500m, the tall spruce is growing near the bottom of a valley in a slight side valley on the NW facing slope.

The forest was originally dominated by European beech ( Fagus sylvatica ), but Norway spruce and European silver fir ( Abies alba ) now dominate due to forest management. Beech and sycamore maple ( Acer pseudoplatanus ) occur, as well as common hazel ( Corylus avellana ) in the shrub layer. Annual precipitation is over 1000 mm.

The spruce is estimated to be 250 years old. The estimation is based on a ring-count of a neighbouring similar-sized spruce which was felled by wind.

Websites say that the last measurement in 2006 gave its height as 61.8 m. The owners, Blaž Kristan and Damijana Sgerm-Kristan, showed us the report of the measurer, Božo Koler from University of Ljubljana. We saw from the report that the Theodolite measurement had been done very carefully, but it was to the high-slope point, so the tree could be even taller as it is growing on a slope. The owners also gave us earlier height measurements:

1938: 51 m
1980: 57.5 m
1995: 61.7 m; DBH 108 cm

Another spruce on the opposite slope was measured by Koler as 54 m tall.

Laser measurements by Jeroen and Kouta gave 62.2 meters above the average soil level and 61.4 m to the high-slope point. We had been given permission for Michael to climb the spruce and this was the first time that the spruce was to be climbed. Over 10 Slovenians followed the climb: the owner’s family, foresters, the vice mayor of the town, TV cameraman and reporter.

From the summit, Michael measured the highest part of the tree with a folding pole and placed a marker at 4.50 m below the tip. The next part to the point about one meter above the high-slope point was measured by lowering a tape and was 56.23 m. As Michael descended, Jeroen and Kouta defined the average soil level (which was not an easy task!). It was 1.53 m and the high-slope point 0.96 m below the tape measured part of the tree. This gave the total height of the tree as 62.26 meters (204.3 ft.) above the average soil level and 61.69 m (202.4 ft.) to the high-slope point. This is the tallest reliably measured native European tree we are aware of. The original top is still intact.

Girth: The CBH is 390 cm (DBH 124 cm) above the average soil level and 361 cm (DBH 115 cm) above the high-slope point.

A 48.4-meter silver fir grows nearby.

Michael's travelogue for this part of our trip can be read here:

Kouta, Michael & Jeroen
by KoutaR
Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:04 pm
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#2 is okay, MTSF, MA


No sure what I'd encounter in the post Sandy world, I went to the Elders Grove yesterday to check on Saheda, Tecumseh, and the other big pines growing in the stand along the Deerfield River. I took my TruPulse 360, tripod, and other equipment. The first image is of Saheda's crown as seen from the Florida Bridge. The highest part of the crown is visible any clearly on the uphill side.


I was alone yesterday, so I used my notebook to provide an idea of scale. Saheda's girth is 11.8 feet at 4.5 feet above mid-slope.


The next image shows the candle that registers as the highest point. Pre-sandy in September, I got 167.5 feet for this sprig. I can now only justify 167.1 feet. So going into the winter, that is the height of New England's second tallest tree confirmed by more exacting measurement methods. I am relieved.


And now a peek up the trunk. It is a long way to the top, and Will Blozan can confirm, having climbed this magnificent tree twice.


Why do I keep measuring these pines? Well, obviously I enjoy measuring them, but from repeated measurement exercises, I'm able to get a feel for the distribution of values one can expect using different instruments in different lighting conditions and from different vantage points. What actual range of heights can I expect measuring the same top over, say 10 visits? Patterns are important. For example, I've long known that my TruPulse can miss the tip of a tuff of foliage if the background is a bright blue sky. LTI warns of this, and the warning is valid. In addition, I can shoot the top of a particular tree with both the TruPulse and the Nikon Prostaff 440 and over several measuring episodes see if the adjustment factor that I commonly apply to the Nikon holds up. Basically, if I subtract one foot from the most prevalent Nikon distance to the target, I almost always get agreement with the most distant TruPulse reading. The Nikon still shoots through clutter far better than the TruPulse, so it remains invaluable to me. However, the TruPulse is my most accurate instrument, and if I succeed in getting a sufficient number of repeat returns from a change-over reading on the display, moving backward, I can subtract off 0.25 feet from that reading and be within an average of 1 inch from the target. It doesn't get much better than that.

Continuing to report these individual measurements to the official sources, big tree hunters, and environmental organizations has a positive impact that increases over time. Make no mistake, it is an indirect challenge by me to others who would mis-measure the great trees and report the results. I do not intend to see the best that New England has to offer obscured by mis-measurements from whatever the sources.

I am pleased to report that perseverance has paid off. MTSF officials and others in DCR refer to the champion pines by name and show an obvious sense of pride in the trees, realizing that they have direct custodianship over a truly remarkable resource. I am truly appreciative, and intend to continue building on what has been a solid relationship from the beginning. One area in which I'm probably a little too outspoken is when sites are portrayed by others as exceptional when they are not. Case and point is the forests on the Quabbin Reservoir. There is nothing exceptional about them, yet Quabbin managers present them as woodlands to showcase. I'd be embarrassed to invite others to come from afar to visit the Quabbin forests, as though they were worth traveling any distance to see. On the other hand, I would never hesitate to recommend Mohawk or Monroe. The next step is to get the Mohawk identified as a national natural landmark, as is the Forest Cathedral in Cook Forest State Park, PA. BTW, the next edition of American Forests will showcase Cook and Mohawk.

Next week, I'll return to Marsh-Billings-Rockefeller National Historical Park to continue the documentation there for the Park people. On the way back, Monica and I will stop at a private Claremont, NH property to re-measure the best of New England's other super white pine site. There is at least a possibility of equaling the height of the Jake Swamp pine in the Claremont site. If it happens, it happens. There are at least three 160-footers in the stand, and probably more. So far my best height is 166.2 feet. A second pine is 164.7 feet, or at least was. But it is a tricky proposition to work there. Part of the family that owns the property would be happy seeing the big pines turned into matchsticks. Very touchy situation. I'm sworn to silence on the details, so I can only report numbers without identifying the property owners or exact location of the trees.

by dbhguru
Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:18 am
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