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Some rare good HWA news

After having seen some horrible HWA disasters in NJ over the last few weeks it was fantastic to see that for whatever reason those all along Clinton Rd in the Pequanncok Watershed in NJ appeared to be doing pretty well. A few big dead ones from the first hit but the rest of the big ones and all the little ones seemed to be in good shape. Not sure what they did, but they must've done something that worked. A number of years ago I had heard talk a ladybug release, but I imagine they must have done more than that.
by greenent22
Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:28 am
 
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Small Sugar Maple rich NJ forest patch

This really belongs in the NJ section now, not MA (although I had originally put it there for a clear reason).
How old does everyone think this patch of a forest is (NJ):
http://skibum4.smugmug.com/Landscapes/NJ/New-Jersey-in-the-Fall-2009/IMG6054/782509525_Fdgt9-XL.jpg

http://skibum4.smugmug.com/Landscapes/NJ/New-Jersey-in-the-Fall-2009/IMG6060/782522153_WvoCQ-XL.jpg

http://skibum4.smugmug.com/Landscapes/NJ/New-Jersey-in-the-Fall-2009/IMG6837/783155233_a6y9h-XL.jpg

http://skibum4.smugmug.com/photos/611443648_dZrvW-XL.jpg
(not necessarily the best photos but only things available online at the moment)

image002.gif
image004.gif
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Very roughly:

It is VERY sugar maple rich but it has a tulip tree or two. Some Yellow-birch. A couple of Ironwood. A few Beech. A White Ash or two, although the big one got killed by drought a few years back. It had one modest Eastern Hemlock on the boundaries between a patch that looks to have been clearcut logged sometime before the early 60s and another patch that looks much older than that but not as old as this patch. A few Spicebush in understory in a few spots. I think there is at least one walnut as well as a few oaks. Sugar Maple is very much the dominant at all ages.

Lots of pit and mound. Quite rocky. Soils don't feel as rich, soft spongy as say old forests I have been in in the Adirondacks. I know that at least as far back as 1970 there 100% zero cut stumps in evidence whatsoever. I have no info on before then.

One of the Ironwoods on the boundary of the forest where it meets homes fell and was cut with a chain saw. The tree was not very thick, I'm guessing 11" DBH, I can get a better sense when I measure the remaining one that had been right next to it and was of a similar size. I have to look up the details but I believe it had around 130 rings when it was counted perhaps in 1995.

I really need to post some measurements from it. I have incredibly easy, instant access to this area. My equipment got lost during a move, still trying to find it, it is definitely somewhere, in some box. I don't think anything is over 3' DBH (I vaguely recall measuring one of the largest Sugar Maples to something like 32" DBH a number of years ago and I think that may have been the thickest tree in the patch, one of the Beech that got killed 20 years ago might have been a little thicker) and most of the big ones are probably more like 21'-27' I'd very, very roughly guess by eyeball.

The section with the characteristics above is only about 2-3 acres. It had adjoined an area with quite a few 2-3' DBH Beech surrounding a small 25'x25' sort of swamp with 6-12" standing water and stream flowing out of it. That part also looked pretty old and was maybe another 1-2 acres. The large Beech all slowly blew over and the swamp totally eutrophied :( it had been really nice, a nice hardwood swap with nearly closed canopy, I think one of the houses they put in above maybe using bad detergent, phosphorus rich or something, all I know is it went from a crystal clear, pebble bottom lined, bubbling brook exiting it to a muddy mess with the stream no longer clear and all the pebbles on the bottom covered in silt, in just two years and today is more like soggy soil with a few standing puddles here and there. Below that it looks a bit younger although down the mountain side there are some more small areas that look somewhat older. Heading straight back the forest becomes a bit younger looking and then quickly hits an old dirt road and then powerlines on the other side it looks much younger until you hit north and east slopes where it looks older again. I vaguely recall on section maybe 2-3 acres that seemed to have very large oaks, perhaps larger than anything in the photos above. That was years ago and I knew nothing about trees really or old-growth in the East at all (I kinda used to think that most woods that didn't look 100% clearly chopped over had never been cut, I couldn't fathom that almost everyhing had been cut, I figured most of the slightly more rural areas with woods were all old-growth other than a few parts logged for this or that, unless it was highways and homes and stores).

I don't recall seeing much mention of old-growth in the 1890s forest reports of NJ for this region. I think there was some talk of 50 year old forests patches in this area near where the photo abov are from, although they didn't seem to have carefully surveyed the area at all since large parts of it had been reported on 20 year rotations! so i think they kind of quickly moved on without a careful survey. I think one of them vaguely hinted at possibility of some very old oak forests around where there are vague reports of an OG oak or forest now NW of the reservoir but it sounded like they didn't give it a good look since it was deep in and there were reports of fires having burned large sections of the region recently. There had been lots of iron mining during the Revolutionary War. I think there was some talk of some 100-150 year old sections going along the line sbetween some towns in the area back then which would be very old now but waht little peeking I did along the one path didn't seem like it had 250+ stuff at all and the other area is almost 100% homes now although there is one little chunck that has some nice older looking trees.

[The forest goes on for hundreds of acres, but certainly large parts of it look younger and some parts are on exposed ridges and sort of miniaturized a bit even with some tiny little grasslands of sort. There are a few other that look like they may be at least as old from what I recall and some chunks that look only moderately younger. This 800 or so acres of (paved) roadless area seems to have a lot more of the older looking patches than many of the other chunks in the region. If you cross one paved road and allow for dirt roads then then the forest goes on for thousands and thousands of acres and of course you hit all sorts of everything with recovering former villages now with young birch and young oaks forest and so on, many large sections of it are much oak dominated and look much, much younger. There are some claims that there is an uncut portion on the northwest shore of a reservoir in a bumpy area. What I have read is very unclear. Most reports refer to a giant old-growth Northern Red Oak but only some make it sound like it part of an OG forest and not a lone remnant and none give any clue as to size of the potential OG forest zone. Looking at the bumpy area on a map it would be hard to imagine it could be over 50 acres and maybe even just a handful (or perhaps it is just the one tree). This area is about 3.5 miles away from the section shown above.

I once caught a reference to an old-growth Eastern Hemlock-Northern Red Oak forest older than 200-250 or something years when there was talk of putting in a pumped storage energy plant and some power lines and some state biologists said in the flier that the power line would cut through it. The location was not entirely clear, nor extent. It might have been 1.5-2 miles away from this I've shown above or perhaps they meant in the forest in the next town over a few miles away since the lines would have extended for a number of miles and the report didn't quite make it clear to which existing lines they would connect. I know the flier had a lot more details, but it sadly got lost right away and this is all from memory from like 20 years ago. I know I saw another reference to it in a book on the NJ Highlands, I need to dig that up and see if the any of the authors of that section can still be reached.

I saw some large logs from a few trees carried out from where they put a horrible destructive dirt road which recently turned into a development of mega mcmansion that cut across one of the largest ungfragmented chunks of this greater forest and one of the largest in the middle NJ highlands, just awful!! and I counted 160 rings on it about 10 years ago, driving into the development where the actual paved roads for it ended up I didn't seem to see anything quite that large, not sure from what part of the forest they dragged those trees out of.]
by greenent22
Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:08 pm
 
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New forest (The Borg's Woods) said to be over 235 years

http://www.hackensacknow.com/Borgswoods.html
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&lr=&q=hackensack,+nj&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Hackensack,+NJ&gl=us&ei=hMfDTKHSDIKdlgeIwJAD&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBsQ8gEwAA#

NJ old-growth documentation is extremely non-centralized and there are places that slowly pop up as new to ENTs and most general old-growth hunters that have been known to many others micro-regionally/etc. this is a new one to add to the general list for old forests of the east.

It is said to be 21acres in size and to be at least 235 years old, maybe older since there is a new claim of a 300 year old oak, who knows.
Looks like about what would have been 10 additional acres got developed in the last 30 years???


On a side note:
I checked out a couple possibilities in the northeastern NJ suburbs that had been listed as virgin tracts by the 1890s survey of NJ which I had mentioned in an earlier posting. The locations had been described only in very rough terms so I need to check around more, it's soooooo densely developed with streets going all over it's confusing, a lot of people in the region appear to have 100-180 year old trees on their lawns. It is possible the above tract is one of them, but I don't have the map where I wrote down the potential areas with me at the moment. I did see one possible giant old-growth remnant in an area perhaps only 1/4 mile from an 1890s listed tract, I didn't yet find the right streets to get up to the area where it may lie although google shows a golf course possibility :(. Interesting there were areas free of houses in spots that appeared to fit the old 1890s surveys, just about the only house free spots. It appeared that they mostly had golf courses and ball fields though. I wonder if of a horrific loss of actual 10-30 acres virgin tracts didn't occur sometime 30-60 years ago??? :( One area appeared to still have woods but it got dark by then.

A second side note:
a 1987 listing notes sites already known (i think) to ENTS such as:
Bull's Island
Bear Swamp
Hutcheson
Heylar's Woods
Laurel Pond
Tilman Ravine

It adds:
Borg's woods (as mentioned above) - 10-21 acres at least 235 years old, said to be under intense development threat, later documents show that intense local campaign and court decisions ultimately saved the better portion of it

Can't make it out but what looks like Engreen Site (??? can't be correct name since nothing in that area has such a name) owned by Hackensack Water said to be 10-20 acres of ancient forest!!! but noted on one of the documents (1987) as "developments planned" for entire parcel!!!!!!!! Truly sickening to think a true ancient forest perhaps as large as 20 acres, so rare in NJ, may have been developed as late as the 1980's/early 90's!! I suppose it might have gotten saved, but I doubt it. :(

It then mentions the following as possibly having many trees 223 years old or more but more investigation needed, highly tentative:
Drew Woods, Madison, NJ - 15-20 acres - They listed it as "possibly planted in the 1700's - development planned for a portion of the woods(!!!!!!)". I have seen some of this myself, nice old trees, not virgin though. The last time I saw it dates to before the mentioned possibly future development though :(. Hope they didn't ruin too much for new dorms or athletic fields or something. The campus itself has some nice trees scattered all over it.

Pigeon Swamp - 5 miles southwest of North Brunswick, 1250 acre tract containing within it a fine example of inner coastal plain lowland forest, said to be preserved

Mannahawkin Tract - old bottomland basswood forest of unknown extent which it claims (in 1980) is perhaps finest such sample on the entire atlantic coastal plain, said to be a protected tract and on the national natural landmark list (and yet entirely missed by ENTs or all other NJ surveys I have seen before!) hopefully it really stayed protected and they didn't log part of it to make more deer habitat or something hah

Pequannock Watershed - 2 separate tracts of unknown extent, no location details given (this is a LARGE watershed), i read something else mention that in this area is the largest old-growth tract in NJ, mostly hemlock (perhaps dead if so)

Norwood/Norvee(???) Boy Scout Tract - no details

Ultimate Corp. tract in East Hanover - 5 acres of giant ancient beech, does it still exist? was this the plot late developed by the now defunct (and then arrogant and greedy) Bear Stearns? They illegally filled in wetlands and did other dirty tricks and refused to do anything at all to save a tiny virgin tract in or near East Hanover said to have trees over 60" dbh, paved it over only to go out of business but a decade later due to reckless dealings and other arrogance (environmentalists say they had they worst dealings with them just about ever, almost took glee in paving them over and breaking the law)

Wawayanda Park Hemlock Ravine area - does this also contain some old stuff as Laurel Pond does? nothing more stated

Pyramid Mountain - perhaps areas of old-growth bits here and there in the general area is all it says, said to be under threat (since then the bulk of it was saved although they did stick a road along the crest of the adjacent ridge in about 15?? years ago, one photo taken just below the road appeared to show some larger trees)


it mentions the old source i found as some place to also look as well as a 1969 report that i have not seen
by greenent22
Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:22 am
 
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promising looking small patch

This is not my photo. I probably shouldn't re-post it here and may remove it soon (it was publicly posted by the taker though elsewhere). I had had some thoughts there might be something good in this area from a few vague comments on some hiking reports over the years and from satellite pics. The area of larger trees is probably not so large, but it looks quite promising. These look like they may well be bigger than the 170 year trees in my other post and both are growing in the same region. I also saw another shot showing another section near hear that appeared to show some trees that I bet have to be at least as old as the 170 year old area patch.

The beech doesn't look too bad and that one back to the right simply looks immense. Hopefully I am not getting tricked by the shot, I don't know the focal length or camera type it was taken with. I could swear that back right trees looks awfully big though. I know on the far side of this area, a mile away or so, is at least one verified old-growth oak and possible a small area of old-growth.

(This site is a bit of a walk and not quite yet up to it yet due to unfortunate reasons but perhaps in another year I will check it out. There actually is a way to get very close without much of a walk but you'd need to drive into a huge gated community and they have a 24hr guard house and you'd have to drive into the farthest depths of the community. Actually I just realized they built a hideous huge extension to another development that was a horror story to an unfragmented part of the highlands which actually gets somewhat close, bit of a wild rocky bushwack scramble down and up from there but a lot shorter than the 7 mile or so roundtrip starting from the hiking trailhead, more like 2 miles from there I think. Anyway I haven't seen it yet myself.)


I came across this photo and it got me pretty excited, it looks very promising.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8199/8201574025_25383a63fc_b.jpg

Looks like it was a popular area for people to hike out to and hang around back in the mid-70s to mid-80s judging by the carvings.
by greenent22
Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:44 am
 
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Terrible Forest News, logging bill passed

I thought the bill was dead, but out of nowhere the legislature suddenly passed a foolhardy state lands logging bill, only a veto by the Governor can stop it. (Oddly, this environmental sham was supported more strongly by Democrats than Republicans as well as by the Audubon Society of NJ (who apparently sold out since they will get fees for each logging plan) although NJ Sierra and rest vehemently oppose the bill (with good reason!).

Supposedly targeting older trees and all the parts of the forests that have grown back to a decent degree and logging them will help enable our forest to grow to mature size and health. Umm wait, what?? So yeah making tons more clearcuts for deer (which are the main cause of any poor forest regeneration that exists in the state, certainly as far as the northern portions) and simply logging things back to circa late 1800s will soooo help out! Just as things are slowly recovering a bit.... wow great.

And with such a dense population at least one thing we had going for us that we had basically near zero logging on any public lands and not much more than that on any private lands. There is no remotely recent history of logging as an industry in NJ.

Isn't it interesting that if you look back at old literature dealing with the Adirondacks you see all sorts of cries about decadent forest, overmature forest, the forest will die unless tended to by man, etc. and every fifty years if you look it's all the areas that get called over mature and decaying that somehow always look the best whether today or fifty years ago or a hundred or 150 and it's the places they did do their management by man that look a mess and that none of them ever seem to even want a part of at this point because they are a mess. Funny how the areas they keep calling over mature, decaying, dying, near final destruction someone are the best there are now decades even well over a hundred years later.

Funny how the early European settlers came upon forests that we only wish we still had today, endless and astounding forests. Pre-tending by western man. On their own for centuries and even millenia. And now look at things after tending.... yeah exactly.
by greenent22
Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:58 am
 
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Re: Great Sycamores of New Jersey, Pennsylvania (Photo galle

There are a couple notable omissions here but I've tried to visit them all over the past year or so. In the descriptions I've listed various information; the circumference at breast height, history, and height if available. Ill add to this post as more trees are visited and will add more heights now that I have the proper equipment to take them. Enjoy.

Nice! I really love the Belv court house tree since it looks like a real tree with the more natural bole.

Here are a couple shots of a pretty nice one in Morris County, reasonably straight bole with branching not starting until decently far up the trunk:
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v67/p1143996008-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v61/p1143996100-4.jpg
by greenent22
Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:47 am
 
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Re: Small Sugar Maple rich NJ forest patch

A few more shots:
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v66/p1208512284-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v66/p1208517044-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v59/p1208521254-5.jpg
at the edge:
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v62/p1208522034-5.jpg
by greenent22
Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:48 am
 
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Cambridge Pines!

A little bit confusing to find but very nice! What beautiful place. Old-growth forest. Pics from 10/4/12:
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v71/p1396165308-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s2/v73/p1396165382-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s4/v66/p1396171850-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v81/p1396172354-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v79/p1396173520-5.jpg
http://sunsetbayphotography4.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v76/p1396165290-5.jpg
by greenent22
Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:40 am
 
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apparently some 100+ old cedar in barrens

http://njhiking.ning.com/profiles/blogs ... bing-range

Not particularly sure it is old-growth at all, but at least it might be 100 years or a bit older, which I guess isn't bad for what it left of the barrens.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:10 pm
 
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older cedar forest in southern NJ

http://teegate.njpinebarrens.com/12052009/3.jpg

Don't know anything else about other than what that article states. (and both the article author and NJ forestry people display some rather unfortunate attitudes, all the old garbage about how trees are a crop that dies shortly after becoming mature so must be cut blah blah blah). Apparently some activist went through the entire woods and spiked up enough trees that the timber cut had to be cancelled and the area was saved though.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:13 pm
 
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15' CBH x 100+' sugar maple in DWGNP

I will check this one out. Word of a patch of forest in the Delaware Watergap National Park that has a sugar maple as large as 15' CBH and supposedly forest grown 100+' tall. Hopefully it's some new little old-growth patch. But it could still turn out to be a lone remnant or a wolf-tree type thing.

Also word of some patch said to have 36"x110' yellow birch a few miles away.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:17 pm
 
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Bull's Island OG to be cut down?!!!!!!!?

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/hunterdon-county/express-times/index.ssf/2012/04/nj_dep_to_clear_5_acres_of_bul.html

Does anyone know if they ever went ahead and cut down the famous Bull's Island Old Growth?

Man I hope not!

It was a terrible accident, but a trees of any age can fall at any time and only clearcutting everything could every prevent this. And how about the simple solution of not having to have a messy campground right in the middle of one of the only bits of old-growth left in all of New Jersey instead of cutting it down to make the messy campsite safer??
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:29 pm
 
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Re: Bulls Island OG to be cut down?!?

Apparently as of late last fall it still hadn't been cut down yet. They said that they were in the process of examing the plan still. So far a petition against the cut has 21,000 signatures (as of sometime last year).

The DEP still thinks it makes sense to log the dangerous and deadly old-growth forest flat and replant the forest with small growing trees, shrubs and bushes to make a nice, safe campsite.

Wow. Just wow! One of the few areas of gigantic old-growth trees in NJ and they just HAVE to have a messy campsite right in the middle of it and just have to clearcut it and make it a little parks with grass and bushes! WOW!

It sounds like there still may just be time left so save it. I hope.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:34 pm
 
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Re: Bull's Island OG to be cut down?!!!!!!!?

And combine this with how NJ found out about an old cedar swamp in the Pine Barrens and wanted to immediately move in and log it before the "over-ripe" trees all died so as to "save" the forest and some wonder why I am so against the proposed bill to open up NJ state wildelife and park preserves to logging. We have no need for forestry to occur in our parklands, not even good forestry and you can sure as heck bet it won't be good anyway.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 5:37 pm
 
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Came across a new potential tract (or2trees) far southern NJ

Scouring the internet I randomly came upon a potential new old-growth tract for NJ. It's in the general area of the Bear Swamp Old-Growth, but not part of those but something else.
Apparently there is a hidden section of gigantic bottomland old-growth along Manumuskin River. I have no idea the extent or anything else. Just one photo some guy took calling it old-growth in a preserve with a photo showing what appear to be some gigantic trees. Hopefully it's more than just those two trees.
by greenent22
Mon May 19, 2014 2:34 am
 
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Re: giant forest grown trees logged by neighbor

Green,

I understand why you're upset about this situation. The small forest you've described seems pretty special, particularly for your area. I'd like to know why you characterized the cutting as "criminal." What law has this landowner broken? As far as I know, people are free to cut trees on property they own, regardless of their neighbors' sentiments. I also doubt that these people "hate" trees; perhaps they're making poor use of their land, but it is their land, is it not?

BTW, I'm not trying to be a smart-arse or mean or anything like that, but your story seems incomplete.

Elijah

Maybe it's not legally criminal, but it was criminal all the same. (although very close to legally so since the property is in the NJ Highlands Preservation Zone, if the acreages were just a trace bigger it would be out and out illegal but I think it may have been small enough to have been exempted (sadly) (although also still "most strongly discouraged") or if we had some of the old trees laws like the do in the UK or even in some other NJ towns it would be (it's not necessarily legal to cut trees on your own private property), but we don't, so maybe not legally criminal yet, but close and all the same criminal in other terms to destroy such prime trees right to the edge of the edge of a wildlife preserve's critical old forest habitat zone when they had ton of other properties with similar homes where no damage would've been required to get a sterile, bare yard. For 50 years the modern property's prior owners had guarded the trees safely.).

They didn't even take the time to learn about the winds and how the property actually works. And it had a lot of effect on surrounding properties. Move in, before you even meet anyone, WHAM just cut the entire property flat.

And as far as hating trees, well to move onto the most wooded property and then to cut down into a 180+ year old forest and cheer as each tree smashed down....
by greenent22
Sun Aug 31, 2014 12:56 am
 
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Re: giant forest grown trees logged by neighbor

Green,

Thanks for responding. I respect that you value this patch of forest you've adopted as your own, but the reality is that the land didn't belong to you, and the new owner had different priorities for it than you wanted. Seeing the land cleared is surely a sad thing for you and your friends and neighbors, but someone else is, at the same time, celebrating a new home place.


Yeah celebrating a new home place, but not even waiting 10 seconds before totally changing the entire landscape and everything as everyone had known it for half a century. By leveling into forest that started growing the same time Abraham Lincoln did. Why the heck if you are afraid of trees and oooo a caterpillar fell on me and want a clear, barren, wide open lawn do you move into a heavily wooded property (paying OVER market, some other couple wanted the property and I heard them say they loved the amazing trees, and these fools go into a bidding war and outbid them for a property of a type they apparently don't even like!!), why move into one of the most unique properties only to destroy it and to not allow anyone who would enjoy such a rare property the chance to move into such a place, of which there are barely any, and turn it into a property that is a dime a dozen??

Off the top of your head how many properties do you know of that have the backyard 180 degrees wrapped around in tight with 180+ year old forest patch that is further surrounded by hundreds of acres of more woods? And how many when it's a mixed Northern Hardwood/semi-Cove type forest? It's criminal to ruin such an incredibly, ultra rare property type and turn it into a Levitown property of which there is a nearly infinite supply.

And people had careful shade gardens and plantings. It's just been a week and suddenly, our hemlock tree which is now getting a ton more direct sun has the branches turning yellow and we don't know what's going on and the shade garden is all wilting.

If they wanted to celebrate a barren clear cut they had a million properties in this area with the same house for same or less cost they couldn've moved into and celebrated without having to cut a thing.



Have you talked to your new neighbors? Were they aware of the uniqueness of their property? I realize that it's too late to save the trees, but maybe in time you can persuade them to adopt your way of thinking. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I find a lot of problems can be solved meeting people face to face.

Elijah

I wish we had gotten to. I almost went over and talked up the wonder of their amazing property one day, but I went in to the bathroom and grabbed a drink and they were gone from the near backyard and that was that. The next time they were seen the trees were falling.

Even then I wish I had rung their doorbell, they could see that we were getting upset and the tree removal people knew it, but maybe if I had run over and rang the bell and begged and pleaded quickly and offered a couple thousand or so for conservation easement on the trees or something, I don't know, maybe I could've at least had time and gotten them to agree to at least save a handful of the boundary trees, but everything was moving so fast and it was so loud and everyone was numb in shock. I too do have some faith in calmly meeting with people and telling marvelous tales and trying to work with them. I wish I had the chance. Even at the last second, I'm kicking myself for not trying a desperate last try, unfortunateley I also got some bad advice where another neighbor said better to just stand back, there is no way you can change anyone's mind and it'll just turn into a mess, I wish I had not listened and given it a desperation try. Maybe the boundary trees could've been saved. If they got scared by misleading hurricane tales and were falsely blaming some trees for the grass being in a horrible state, maybe some proper info could have persuaded them (heck just pointing to the sky and showing where the sun shines and where shadows get cast would make it clear). Their grass was a disaster because of the crazy things the cheap lawn care crew of the prior owner did. The original owner had even more trees and yet deep lush grass. I don't know, they didn't seem to pay much mind to everyone tearing up and looking on in distress and since it's so much effort to cut it all down, maybe a couple thousand wouldn't have persuaded them, but I don't know. I mean it was confusing since after they had cut the interior trees it seemed like they were done with back and all the back boundary trees were going to be fine and we thought they were just going to cut the front trees at that point. Then all of a sudden we hear a saw and giant crash and they already lopped off half of a giant boundary tree and that cracked another. There were still a couple more to save, but we were just stunned and horrified and frozen in shock. After the initial cutting stopped, the tree cutter said boy you guys look sad and upset and then told a neighbor that there had 8 more to cut, but they seemed to indicate towards the front and other side where there were young trees. But once that info had been relayed that that many more trees were to be cut I wish I had dashed over and tried to get the details straight and talked things out, maybe to no avail, but maybe, maybe.... but it was such a whirlwind and everyone was suggesting different things and many were saying it was hopeless, etc.

I mean, yeah, well maybe if they had bothered to meet their neighbors first maybe they could have been educated about the uniqueness of it, even been paid to save the boundary giants at least, but they just boom, moved in and wiped 'em flat, they and their stupid tree removal friends didn't even get the prevalent wind directions correct, aside from the freak hurricane Sandy, which was said to have been the first storm to blow strong winds in that direction in here in probably a good 800 years, no trees here have ever blown down in that direction. Not a single tree has blown down in a direction that would've blown a single one of the trees they cut, aside from one, toward their house or deck, in the last 60 years at a minimum and perhaps for far, far longer. And then the tree guy is like oh they have a young kid and they need a huge backyard lawn to play. 1. the giant boundary trees would have prevented that?? 2. a little kid needs like a football field of open grass or he can't play? The prior two property owners had kids and they played in the backyard (and I with them). And the boundary trees would not have prevented them from expanding the lawn a lot.

The ironic thing is a couple houses up there is a property that had a big largely wide open backyard lawn and I remember they'd always laugh about how they bought it thinking their kids and all the other kids would love it and everyone would play on it, but guess what, nobody ever did, twice ever!!, because it was boring! Kids like trees to climb, hide behind, build tree forts in, dirt to dig, etc. The property that just got massacred actually had kids playing in it 10000x more than the "lawn for kids". I mean who knows, maybe this kid and these ones will like the wide open barren grass, but the last two gens of kids here didn't.

And again, if they are afraid of trees, want barren hot sun and not a single living thing but grass, why outbid a couple who loved the property as it was a destroy something that people had been living with as it was for 45 years, when you had so many properties available as you liked it with out needing to destroy the one unique one?

From what I can see, out of 200 properties on this super long forest road, over the last 65+ years they are only the second people to ever annihilate a property to the boundaries like this and the only other ones who have done this, had vastly younger and smaller trees on the woods in their yard and they did it a couple years after moving in and working with their next door neighbor.

And yeah still legal to cut it, but it was in zone designated for forest preservation and while not illegal on a single family home lot this small it was strongly discouraged.

But I see it more and more around the region, city types without a natural loving bone in their body are just moving in and chopping the crap out of this and that, ancient hedge of twisted lilacs, who needs, that cut em flat, cut the property bare to ground, in another part of town have some 150-200 year old towering trees down your backyard slope above the lake, just move in and chop em all down so you can stare at the parking lot on the other side of the lake and so your whole backyard and can erode into the lake and make it turn into a green algae mess right near the main swimming beach.
by greenent22
Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:25 pm
 
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Re: giant forest grown trees logged by neighbor

For what it's worth, greenent22, I am horrified as well, and understand your post completely. I would feel exactly as you do if I were there. I'm sure I would type up a similar post to this forum about it. Wow. I just don't believe it.

Thanks it's like a nightmare that I keep feeling like we'll wake up from.

I doubt more than a literal handful of properties in the entire state had houses wrapped in nearly 200 year old trees and then hudreds of acres of woods beyond and that is the one property they have to destroy, the 100,000 others to their liking, those they couldn't buy instead, they had to go to a bidding war and overpay to get something they hated over someone who loved it.

And they get out blowers and blow all the sawdust down onto us.
by greenent22
Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:27 pm
 
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Re: Valhalla

Quick first photo from the grove:
Image
by greenent22
Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:25 pm
 
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Re: Big Hemlock found in Salem County, NJ

wow

what a tree

ffgdffdhdfhdfh
by greenent22
Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:06 am
 
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