Search found 105 matches

Return

Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Jared,

No sweat. I got the humor. Keep it coming.

I chose the unimaginative name of Pie Pine. Gotta come up with abetter name.

Bob
by dbhguru
Sat May 07, 2016 7:56 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Nice job. This woodland seems to be pretty even-aged. Is that an accurate assumption? Green and white ash gave me trouble for a long time, but once you've seen a lot of each, separating the two becomes much easier. Green ash prefers wetter soil, and the leaves appear shiny, while White ash is found more upland, and the leaf bottoms appear, well, white. Black ash is the easiest to tell apart due to its thick twigs and "corky" bark, but it's also not that common. The southern Biltmore ash is a species I've not seen in person, but Brian Beduhn has posted some recent photos of it.

Keep up the good work,

Elijah
by ElijahW
Mon May 09, 2016 6:31 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Great post and congrats on the confirmations. You certainly got my attention with those two BBs. I'll lay money on your eventually breaking 100 in eastern Mass.

Bob
by dbhguru
Mon May 09, 2016 7:59 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Great post and congrats on the confirmations. You certainly got my attention with those two BBs. I'll lay money on your eventually breaking 100 in eastern Mass.


Jared... just remember-- if you do break 100 on the birch, then you owe Bob a banana split in celebration; but if you don't break 100, then you owe Bob a banana split to cure his depression.
by RayA
Mon May 09, 2016 8:26 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared, my experience in finding tall black birch over here is that the tallest specimen is rarely one of the aged or upright- in several cases now, the tallest birch at a given site is one that's relatively thin and smooth-barked, often with its trunk at an angle or forming a gentle s-curve, with just a small high-starting flag of a crown that's been thrust into a small gap between the canopies of more conventionally tall trees. One site in particular has not a single black birch exceeding 90' except for this singular individual of the form described, punching up through the red oak canopy to top out a little taller than the most of the oaks themselves at 104'! It seems that somewhere in the genetic coding of black birch is the capacity, when conditions are right, to grow as a sinuous light-seeking missile.
by Erik Danielsen
Mon May 09, 2016 9:47 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Thanks for sharing that history. I don't know my family's geneology as well as I should, but you're right about the variant spelling. One of my aunts is a member of the Mayflower Society, which took a lot of work, but I think the Whitcomb line didn't arrive in New England until later in the 1630s. I'll have to look into the Bolton connection, now that you've gotten me curious. Thanks again,

Elijah
by ElijahW
Thu May 12, 2016 9:48 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Good question, Jared!
At one level, you can measure anyway you want, define your system of measurement, and seek agreement with those you encounter.
At the national champion tree register level, you imagine you're lowering a completely horizontal plane until it first contacts the tree being measured.
Simlarly, you establish a horizontal plane at the base of the subject tree, and then you measure the vertical distance between the two horizontal planes, which is by American Forests definition of the height of the tree. Leaning, bent, it doesn't matter...two horizontal planes at tip top, and tree's bottom (defined as the root collar, or point where it was apparent that the original seed level was (point where tree bole turns into root system)).
Mark brings up a good point...you may lose a couple of tenths (of a foot) measuring winter's height leaf off, versus spring/summer's height with leaf on...but that probably can be obfuscated by the seasonal growth that trees can be capable of.
For the really picky...I maintain that the tree's respiration/transpiration during diurnal and seasonal variations can easily vary in the tenths of a foot realm.
by Don
Wed May 11, 2016 11:09 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Spring growth can increase the height or decrease the height. Often, the tallest sprig, especially on multileaf trees, leans from the weight of the leaves, I can see a metasequoia at work that grew a nice, tall, narrow sprig that leaned over in new leaf, taking a couple of feet off the height. It strengthened over the summer and topped its previous height.

The height of a tree is the highest that can be attained when measured. The height can vary a bit throughout the year.

Brian
by bbeduhn
Thu May 12, 2016 9:22 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Jared,

Good topic for discussion!

In a strict and theoretical sense, I think that the leaf adds to the tree's current height.

In a practical sense, I agree that the tree's listed height will depend on what definition is being used, which in turn is determined by what the data will be used for. For many species the added height would be within the margin of error for most height measuring methods, but for those that add significant height a rule would need to exist so that the measurers are consistent.

Matt
by Matt Markworth
Wed May 11, 2016 10:24 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Jared,

I'll look up the current champs of both species and get back to you.

Bob
by dbhguru
Fri May 20, 2016 9:54 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Good Story!

As a former res of MA and SWO fan, I sometimes wondered what the record for SWO was there. So thanks!

I don't doubt that bigger ones are there off trail.

Good Work!
by Lucas
Tue May 24, 2016 1:23 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Nice tree.

I used to pass by them on Water Row, etc. all the time when I was there but didn't have a clue what they were then. Something, I regret now.

Amazing luck on the weasels. You don't see them often.
by Lucas
Thu May 26, 2016 12:48 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Jared,

I had measured a couple of large swamp white oaks in Concord several years ago but I wasn't sure which notebook I used to record the measurements. Luckily my parents were here this weekend and we decided to visit Walden Pond and the site where the Revolutionary War started (and where the big swamp white oaks are located). I already knew that one of the trees had died and I think it was the smaller one. I only made fairly quick measurements of the girth and height and I'd like to go back when the leaves are off and I can spend more time to make better measurements. Anyway, I ended up with a girth of 14.19' @ 3' 3" and a height of 75.1'. I measured the girth below a rather large burl and the girth may be slightly less a little lower. This is the largest swamp white oak I have ever seen in Massachusetts but there are likely some other big ones to be found in Concord, Bedford, Wayland and Sudbury among other places. Here are a couple pictures I took of the swamp white oaks in April several years back.

The first picture shows the swamp white oak that is now dead in the foreground on the left as well as the one that I measured yesterday.
SWO1.jpg

This next picture only shows the tree that I measured yesterday and you can clearly see all the burls on the trunk.
SWO2.jpg

Doug
by DougBidlack
Mon May 30, 2016 10:25 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Image

I like it.

A gnarly old warrior Ent.
by Lucas
Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:44 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Map of MA

Image

Takes me back to my MA days.
by Lucas
Tue May 31, 2016 11:16 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Punkatasset Conservation Land and Estabrook Woods, Conco

I've covered the north end of Estabrook pretty well over the last year, tallest white pine so far in the 115-120'+ class so I'm glad to hear you've got a couple 130+ in Punkatasset. I have found some superb yellow and black birch, more notable for girth and old-growth characteristics than height. There is also an abundance of big red oak in the the northern Estabrook, some girthy tall ones, waiting to be measured.

Andrew Joslin
Carlisle, MA
by AndrewJoslin
Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:48 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Martha's Vineyard

I was fortunate enough to visit the island of Martha's Vineyard. It is not a site for tall trees. I doubt there's a tree on the island that can even crack 90 feet. It is dominated by pitch pines in most areas and an assortment of oaks in others. The hilltops have stunted oak growth, dominated by white oak, black oak, red oak, scarlet oak and hybrids as well as another oak I couldn't positively id. These 250-300 foot elevation trees look much like the trees on the 5,000 to 5,500 foot ridges in the southern Appalachians. The first photos are from Menemsha Hills.
Picture 042.JPG
Picture 043.JPG Picture 047.JPG Picture 051.JPG
The towns have some large trees but they are mostly exotic. I was amazed at how few sugar maples and tuliptrees were present. Picture 025.JPG Picture 024.JPG
This next pagoda is also from 1837, just a half mile away, and it's a whopper, most certainly the largest tree on the island, perhaps the tallest at ~80-85'. It appeared to top 18' cbh. Picture 071.JPG
Copper beeches are beautiful trees. This one looks like 17' cbh. Picture 066.JPG Picture 065.JPG
This is the largest native tree I saw. It's not tall but very stout with a nice spread. Picture 067.JPG
Here's the rare hybrid lighthouse/baobab Picture 032.JPG
White pines were only present in two locations and were planted and still very young. They hadn't topped 70 feet. Norway spruce and Norway maples are common. The spruce may be the tallest trees...either the spruce or the pagoda. An exotic maple is common as well. My pictures didn't come out on that species.
by bbeduhn
Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:43 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Tornado brushes through Concord Mass. 8/22

At 3am this morning I was woken by a "take shelter immediately" tornado warning, a strong front was moving through eastern Massachusetts. I checked the Doppler radar on my weather app and a classic hook formation indicating potential tornadic rotation was very close to my Carlisle location. It passed a few miles south essentially running from the southwest right through the center of Concord Mass. Many trees and power lines down in the path but otherwise no personal injury reported.

I was able to determine the path this morning through various news reports that gave street addresses or street names where trees were down and roads closed. I was looking to see how close the wind event passed to notable tall trees in the area. Many large old trees in Concord are down in residential areas. The plus 130' white pine in Hapgood-Wright conservation land is the closest tall tree to the storm path, it looks like it was out of the way approximately a quarter/half mile south of the damage path. The recently discovered tall white pines in Lincoln are further from the path to the south. The 130's in Punkatasset/Estabrook are safely out of the way just to the north of the path. This wind event threaded the needle and it looks like it left the measured tall trees undamaged. When I get a chance I'll confirm whether the Hapgood-Wright tree still has its upper crown intact or not.

*NWS just confirmed it as a tornado after studying the damage patterns.

Andrew Joslin
Carlisle, MA
by AndrewJoslin
Mon Aug 22, 2016 10:42 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Purgatory Gulch, Encampment River Wilderness, WY

NTS,

Recently I spent a night in the Medicine Bow Mountains of Wyoming and got up the next morning with a plan to measure some trees. I chose Purgatory Gulch based on it having a lower elevation than much of the Medicine Bow National Forest and I thought it would have a better chance of having tall trees.

The grove of Engelmann spruce that I measured was at about 8,400' elevation. Subalpine fir and quaking aspen were also abundant.

Engelmann spruce:

7.96' x 135'
6.4' x 131.9'
6.9' x 131.8'
7.93' x 130'
8.72' x 121'

It was a very enjoyable day exploring and measuring trees, especially watching the herd of pronghorn above me on the slope.

Does anyone know if we've measured anything in Wyoming above 140' or have thoughts on the potential heights in the state?

Crossing over Snowy Range Pass in the snow:

WY1.jpg

Looking down into Purgatory Gulch:

WY2.JPG

The Engelmann spruce grove:

WY3.jpg

The tops of the Engelmann spruce grove:

WY4.jpg

Matt
by Matt Markworth
Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:39 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: The Leverett White Fir

Matt,

Ol' Bob takes a lot of ribbing (at least from me), and pokes fun at himself regularly. But he really deserves a huge amount of credit and thanks for the lifetime of work he's done across the country. Heck, I'm worn out just trying to see all the places he's trodden in Western Mass! So, I think it's great that he has a fine tree named for him, he sure does deserve it. Plus, he promised to reduce the number of ice cream scoops I owe him if I said so. Thank you!
by RayA
Fri Oct 21, 2016 9:39 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Re: Remeasure, 124.83' White Pine, Carlisle, MA

Yes Jared, I know the tree well, it's a pole with a very stripped crown, the Carlisle tall pines that remain are barely hanging on. A fine remnant grove though.
-AJ
by AndrewJoslin
Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:17 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Rochester, NY Area Oct. 30, 2016

NTS,

On Sunday Oct. 30, 2016, Elijah Whitcomb and I explored Abraham Lincoln Park (formerly Irondequoit Bay Park East) on the east shore of Irondequoit Bay east of Rochester, NY. The park is covered with tall 2nd growth forest, and contains the tallest Sassafras trees yet seen in NY, and possibly the Northeast. The forest is dominated by Oaks, especially Red and Black Oaks. The weather turned nasty, with a cold, steady rain starting when we were at the farthest point of our hike, near the tall Sassafras trees. This bad weather, and the wet, muddy, steep, mostly unmaintained trail, made it difficult to concentrate on trees. The upper part of the forest is filled with invasive plants; much further down the steep ravines are many tall native trees, especially the grove of tall Sassafras trees, densely clustered together on a steep hill. The tree were still mostly green, still in leaf, incredible for this time of year this far north.

Trees seen at Abraham Lincoln Park include Red Oak, Black Oak, White Oak (few), Basswood, Red Maple, Sugar Maple, Beech, Sassafras (common), Tuliptree, Cottonwood, Bigtooth Aspen, Black Birch, Yellow Birch, White Ash, Pignut Hickory, Willow, Hophornbeam, possible European Elm species (leaf like Elm or Hophornbeam, bark like rougher Shadbush, but not as smooth as Hornbeam, small trees), Butternut, Ailanthus (tall), White Pine (few), Hemlock (few), Norway Spruce (plantation near top of hill).

It rained all the rest of the time when we were in the Rochester area, so we drove around and through parks, including Lucien Morin Park, Irondequoit Bay Park West, Seneca Park in Rochester, and Powder Mills Park in Pittsford (hills covered with what could be old growth Oak forest).

Trees Measured with Elijah Whitcomb Rochester, NY Area Oct. 30, 2016:

Abraham Lincoln Park east of Irondequoit Bay:

Cottonwood
128+ straight up shot (tree over 130 ft. tall – Elijah)

Sassafras
120 tallest NY, possibly tallest Northeast
96.1
110.5
105.5
101.5
100.6

White Oak
84.9

Seneca Park, Rochester:

Persimmon
73.5 6’1” cbh (23.2” dbh) tallest NY (Elijah), possible NY champion, corresponds to tree on NY champion list

Trees at Seneca Park not measured for height:

Sassafras
9’4” cbh (35.6” dbh), battered tree, low broken top

Table Mountain Pine
small tree with spiky cones, possible NY champion, corresponds to tree on NY champion list

Turkish Oak
(Quercus cerris) small leaves, big open-grown tree

Powder Mills Park, Pittsford:

Shagbark Hickory
99.8

Tom Howard
by tomhoward
Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:18 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Adirondack Outing Oct. 19, 2016

NTS,

On Wed. Oct. 19, 2016, Elijah Whitcomb and I went to Paul Smith’s College in the northern Adirondacks. We left North Syracuse after 7 AM, took I-81 north to Watertown, US 11 northeast through farm country to Potsdam, NY 11B east to Nicholville (in this area saw 2 corky Rock Elms in field among Amish farms), NY 458 into the Adirondack Park (through Santa Clara Experimental Forest – all 2nd growth) to NY 30, NY 30 south to Paul Smith’s College. It was a beautiful cool day, more sun than clouds with temperatures from 60 to 64 F. Most of the forest we traveled through is lovely 2nd growth with lots of White Pine (towering above all other trees), Balsam Fir, Red Spruce, Aspen, Yellow Birch, some Jack Pine, Hemlock, White Cedar, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, Beech, Paper Birch, Black Cherry. In the frequent swampy and boggy areas were plenty of White Pine (tallest tree), Balsam Fir, Black Spruce, Tamarack (starting to turn gold), some White Cedar. Maples were mostly past peak, but Aspens (Quaking and Bigtooth) were at peak, with mostly yellow and gold, some orange.

At the Paul Smith’s College VIC (Visitor Interpretive Center, a large outdoor area with many trails), Elijah and I met Rob Leverett and Betty Austin, and then Rob’s father Bob Leverett and Bob’s wife Monica. We walked along a beautiful easy nature trail through a lovely 2nd growth forest dominated by fragrant Balsam Fir, White Pine (the trees we came to see – lovely, fragrant, the largest and tallest trees, but not nearly as tall as expected), Yellow Birch (oldest trees, ancient, gnarly, with lots of character – especially one by bridge over stream – Bob Leverett said these picturesque Yellow Birches could easily be about 250 years old – the only old trees in this forest). Associate trees include Red Spruce (should be there, but I did not note it during the visit), Paper Birch, Bigtooth Aspen (some big), Hemlock (some big), Beech, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, Striped Maple, Black Cherry (some big).

The big White Pines should be 100-150 years old; one of the biggest is 35.8” dbh (9.4 ft. cbh) – Bob Leverett measured this tree to 108 ft. All these White Pines looked taller than they turned out to be.

Bob Leverett and I measured a typical Balsam Fir to 81 ft.

One of the biggest White Pines (10 ft., 7” cbh, 40.4” dbh) was measured by Bob Leverett to 113.5 ft. This is the tallest tree we would measure at this site. The tallest White Pines at this site could be about 120 ft. I measured a flat-topped White Pine to about 110 ft. above eye level.

The area where the big White Pines grow is at the edge of a marsh, and strong winds limit their height. It was still absolutely glorious to be among them, and the wind through the pines made a wonderful sound.

I measured a Bigtooth Aspen to 64.4 ft.

Rob Leverett talked enthusiastically about bigger and older trees near Cherry Patch Pond to the east (beyond Lake Placid), and he wanted to show them to us, so we went there next.

Bob Leverett said he measured a Balsam Poplar to 92 ft.+ by the motel in Keene Valley, NY where he and Monica were staying. He asked me if I had much information about Balsam Poplar heights. I said I only knew of one Balsam Poplar in British Columbia at 91 ft. – Bob was pleasantly surprised that the tree he measured could be the tallest known of that species.

Bob Leverett told us of a Quaking Aspen he measured near Stockbridge, MA to 108 ft. – this could be the Eastern height record; he measured a taller Quaking Aspen in Colorado.

We followed Rob Leverett to Cherry Patch Pond through beautiful country, with White Pines everywhere along the roads, on NY 86 through Saranac Lake, with White Pines lining lakeshores, with awesome views of the High Peaks (possibly including NY’s highest point, Mt. Marcy, at 5344 ft.), and to northeast other high mountains, including Whiteface, which reached into the clouds.

We took a back road, which bypassed the center of Lake Placid, a road which took us past the Olympic Training Center and by the towering Olympic Ski Jumps. There were many big Aspens among the White Pines. We drove through a forest with plenty of White Spruce, the most of that species I’ve ever seen in NY.

We stopped on NY 86 at the small parking lot at the beginning of the Cherry Patch Pond Trail, in a beautiful setting of high hills topped by White Pines over 120 ft. tall, and a marsh backed by a high ridge that seems to be covered with old growth White Pine-Hardwood forest.

The trail through the Cherry Patch Pond forest was rugged, narrow, rocky, with steep ups and downs. The trail goes through a beautiful old growth forest dominated by Red Spruce, Balsam Fir, Yellow Birch, and eventually near the end of our walk, White Pine. The air was fresh and fragrant with Balsam Fir. Associate trees include White Cedar, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, Striped Maple, Beech, Black Cherry. Groundcover includes Bunchberry Dogwood and Clubmosses.

Rob Leverett said he counted 250 rings on many stumps and cross-sections in this stand.

This forest has many young trees, and in many places the old trees are widely scattered, so there may have been some logging. Downed timber is fairly plentiful, and pit and mound topography is abundant, so wind is a major disturbance. These trees seem to be older than they look. The Red Spruces are exceptionally large.

Elijah measured a 6 ft. 9” cbh (25.8” dbh) Red Spruce to over 96 ft. tall.

Elijah measured a large White Cedar to 74 ft.

We came to a huge Red Spruce, the biggest Red Spruce I’ve ever seen. Bob Leverett thinks this rugged old Red Spruce could be 350 years old. This Red Spruce is 7 ft. 5” cbh (28.3” dbh), and 101 ft. 4” tall, as measured by Elijah.

We came to the edge of the big White Pines, but we were too exhausted, and a lot of time had gone by, so we decided to turn back. Before we turned back, I got a height above eye level of 132.8 ft. on one of the tall-looking White Pines; since the base of this tree is very likely above eye level, this White Pine may not be as tall as that.

A small Red Spruce cross-section had what looked like about 200 tight rings. Rob Leverett has counted 140 rings on a Balsam Fir cross-section in this area, an exceptional age for Balsam Fir.

We returned to our cars, said good-by at the end of this splendid get-together, and Elijah and I continued northeast on NY 86 into the spectacular Wilmington Notch, with old growth White Pines on cliff faces, awesome views of towering Whiteface Mountain (4865 ft.), Little Whiteface Mountain (3660 ft., with a chairlift to the top), fantastic fall colors on steep gorge slopes, old Red Pines atop cliffs, White Cedars on cliff sides, Hemlocks in the gorge.

Elijah and I turned around at Wilmington, took NY 86 back by Cherry Patch Pond, and into the lovely village of Lake Placid, with its Olympic venues, big fancy hotels, lovely Mirror Lake, big White Pines. We continued on NY 86 west to Saranac Lake, and then NY 3 west to Tupper Lake, through 2nd growth forests in swampy areas with rugged White Pines towering over Balsam Firs, Black Spruces, Tamaracks, White Cedars, Hemlocks. We took NY 3 west across the lower, swampy western Adirondacks, to the Watertown area. There were many White Pines, Sugar Maples with gold, orange, and red leaves illuminated by the setting sun, golden-leafed Aspens, some big Black Cherries. On NY 3A we went by the area where Elijah measured a 93 ft. Jack Pine. We took I-81 back to North Syracuse. The outing took nearly 13 hours from after 7 AM to 8 PM.

Trees Measured by Bob Leverett, Elijah Whitcomb, and Tom Howard
Oct. 19, 2016:

Paul Smith’s College VIC Nature Trail:

White Pine
108 35.8” dbh
113.5 10’7” cbh
about 110

Balsam Fir
81

Bigtooth Aspen
64.4

Cherry Patch Pond:

White Pine
132.8 height above eye level

Red Spruce
96+ 9’6” cbh
101’4” 7’5” cbh

White Cedar
74

Tom Howard Oct. 20, 2016
by tomhoward
Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:08 am
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic

Pike State Forest Report (West of SR 41)

NTS,

I don't know all the ins and outs of Ohio's State Forest High Conservation Value Forest (HCVF) program, but here's a report I created for an environmental organization in an effort to seek additional protections for this site. My next report will be on a very special ravine in Hocking State Forest.

I think that these types of activities help explain one of the reasons for the "why" of our accurate measuring activities, with conservation efforts being one of many reasons for accurate tree dimension measuring.

The PowerPoint presentation looks best in slide show mode:

Pike State Forest (West of SR41) Report.pptx

Matt
by Matt Markworth
Sun Oct 30, 2016 4:15 pm
 
Jump to forum
Jump to topic