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Re: Hefty bigtooth aspen in Bolton

Jared:
Check out the information available at the Trees Database site: http://treesdb.azurewebsites.net/Browse/Species and more precisely for Big Tooth Aspen at: http://treesdb.azurewebsites.net/Browse/Species/Populus%20grandidentata%20%28Bigtooth%20Aspen%29/Details
This is a site developed by NTS members(Galehouses) for use by NTS members and is an easy reference for maximum dimensions measured in various states.
by tsharp
Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:45 am
 
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Re: Tall pine grove by I-495 with an interesting history

Jared,

Nice find. Those trees can't be too old since Whitcombs have been cutting White pines in Massachusetts and Connecticut for close to 400 years. I enjoy reading your posts; we have several active members from eastern MA, but reports from your area have been few and far between. Keep up the good work,

Elijah Whitcomb
by ElijahW
Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:14 pm
 
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Re: Hefty bigtooth aspen in Bolton

Hah! One of my favorite species, even if not too terribly long-lived. It just gives the woods a little something-the color of the trunks when younger than the trees shown in this post, the interesting gray-green look of newly emerging foliage in the spring, and so on. We're planting a few up at our land this weekend. We've covered most all the bare field with trees but I've got a few higher humps I purposely left open for this tree of upland sites.
by wisconsitom
Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:41 am
 
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Re: Hefty bigtooth aspen in Bolton

Jared,

The 126-footer grew in a small grove on Clark Ridge, very steep. That tree no longer stands. The aspens were all small in circumference (3 to 6 feet) and not noticeable to anyone looking for big trees. You could see them from Zoar Gap mainly differentiable through their lighter leaf color, but they clearly stood taller than the surrounding oaks. However, from the distance, there was nothing to use for scale - just a patch of lighter green. So, the group that included aspens with heights from 110 to 120 feet, and with one at 122 and the 126-footer stood for decades unnoticed.

This story applies equally to other species within Mohawk. The white ash were, and to a lesser degree, still are absolute standouts. At one point, we confirmed around 20 to heights of 140 feet or more with one at 152.5. That tree is down now. John Eichholz tagged another right on 150, but I think that tree is also down. The Rucker Index of MTSF once stood at 136.1 feet. I think it now is not more than 135. We need to update Mohawk's RHI. Here is the historical RHI for Mohawk.

Screen shot 2016-04-26 at 12.27.57 PM.png

The big challenge for years has been to get others, state and public, to recognize (and value) Mohawk's forest as exceptional and worthy of special recognition and protection. This has turned into a life's work.

Bob
by dbhguru
Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:31 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Nice find! There is one in the Smokies that was measured to 89.7', in January of 2007. 80' is a rare find in hophornbeams so it could be the tallest in the Northeast.

Jess and Will measured the hophornbeam. Jess used to keep a Maxlist of the top trees of all dimensions. This is not up to date so there are taller individuals for many species but it still provides a good measuring stick for superlative heights, girths and spreads.
Max list 2.1.xls
by bbeduhn
Mon May 02, 2016 12:54 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Jared,

Could be a huge find but I think that is a Tilia...

Maybe it's the photo quality but the bark and crown form does not look like Ostrya. However, I could be wrong here!

-Will
by Will Blozan
Mon May 02, 2016 4:36 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Jared,

Look for basal sprouts around the tree. Also, last years' fruits should be evident underneath. Ostrya has super-fine twigs; Tilia much thicker.

Close -up looks like Tilia- thanks for the additional shot!

Will
by Will Blozan
Mon May 02, 2016 7:09 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

I'll take a piece of that pie Jared... I didn't get any last time I deserved it (which wasn't long ago).
by RayA
Tue May 03, 2016 8:14 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Jared,

Count me in too. Pie is my alternative to ice cream treats.

BTW, that 69-foot hophornbeam is no slouch.

Bob
by dbhguru
Wed May 04, 2016 8:14 am
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

The best tree-hunting expeditions, as far as I've experienced, begin with a (humble) slice of donut pie, with a dollop of rocky road on top to take the edge off.

I think the very-exciting-misidentified-tree is a sort of self-hazing ritual many of us greenhorn ents put ourselves through. I'm doing the same thing to myself with ferns lately!
by Erik Danielsen
Wed May 04, 2016 1:16 pm
 
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Re: Tall hophornbeam in Bolton

Jared,

No sweat. I got the humor. Keep it coming.

I chose the unimaginative name of Pie Pine. Gotta come up with abetter name.

Bob
by dbhguru
Sat May 07, 2016 7:56 pm
 
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Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Nice job. This woodland seems to be pretty even-aged. Is that an accurate assumption? Green and white ash gave me trouble for a long time, but once you've seen a lot of each, separating the two becomes much easier. Green ash prefers wetter soil, and the leaves appear shiny, while White ash is found more upland, and the leaf bottoms appear, well, white. Black ash is the easiest to tell apart due to its thick twigs and "corky" bark, but it's also not that common. The southern Biltmore ash is a species I've not seen in person, but Brian Beduhn has posted some recent photos of it.

Keep up the good work,

Elijah
by ElijahW
Mon May 09, 2016 6:31 am
 
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Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Great post and congrats on the confirmations. You certainly got my attention with those two BBs. I'll lay money on your eventually breaking 100 in eastern Mass.

Bob
by dbhguru
Mon May 09, 2016 7:59 am
 
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Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Great post and congrats on the confirmations. You certainly got my attention with those two BBs. I'll lay money on your eventually breaking 100 in eastern Mass.


Jared... just remember-- if you do break 100 on the birch, then you owe Bob a banana split in celebration; but if you don't break 100, then you owe Bob a banana split to cure his depression.
by RayA
Mon May 09, 2016 8:26 am
 
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Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared, my experience in finding tall black birch over here is that the tallest specimen is rarely one of the aged or upright- in several cases now, the tallest birch at a given site is one that's relatively thin and smooth-barked, often with its trunk at an angle or forming a gentle s-curve, with just a small high-starting flag of a crown that's been thrust into a small gap between the canopies of more conventionally tall trees. One site in particular has not a single black birch exceeding 90' except for this singular individual of the form described, punching up through the red oak canopy to top out a little taller than the most of the oaks themselves at 104'! It seems that somewhere in the genetic coding of black birch is the capacity, when conditions are right, to grow as a sinuous light-seeking missile.
by Erik Danielsen
Mon May 09, 2016 9:47 am
 
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Re: Northwoods in Bolton

Jared,

Thanks for sharing that history. I don't know my family's geneology as well as I should, but you're right about the variant spelling. One of my aunts is a member of the Mayflower Society, which took a lot of work, but I think the Whitcomb line didn't arrive in New England until later in the 1630s. I'll have to look into the Bolton connection, now that you've gotten me curious. Thanks again,

Elijah
by ElijahW
Thu May 12, 2016 9:48 pm
 
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Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Good question, Jared!
At one level, you can measure anyway you want, define your system of measurement, and seek agreement with those you encounter.
At the national champion tree register level, you imagine you're lowering a completely horizontal plane until it first contacts the tree being measured.
Simlarly, you establish a horizontal plane at the base of the subject tree, and then you measure the vertical distance between the two horizontal planes, which is by American Forests definition of the height of the tree. Leaning, bent, it doesn't matter...two horizontal planes at tip top, and tree's bottom (defined as the root collar, or point where it was apparent that the original seed level was (point where tree bole turns into root system)).
Mark brings up a good point...you may lose a couple of tenths (of a foot) measuring winter's height leaf off, versus spring/summer's height with leaf on...but that probably can be obfuscated by the seasonal growth that trees can be capable of.
For the really picky...I maintain that the tree's respiration/transpiration during diurnal and seasonal variations can easily vary in the tenths of a foot realm.
by Don
Wed May 11, 2016 11:09 pm
 
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Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Spring growth can increase the height or decrease the height. Often, the tallest sprig, especially on multileaf trees, leans from the weight of the leaves, I can see a metasequoia at work that grew a nice, tall, narrow sprig that leaned over in new leaf, taking a couple of feet off the height. It strengthened over the summer and topped its previous height.

The height of a tree is the highest that can be attained when measured. The height can vary a bit throughout the year.

Brian
by bbeduhn
Thu May 12, 2016 9:22 am
 
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Re: Where is the top of a tree?

Jared,

Good topic for discussion!

In a strict and theoretical sense, I think that the leaf adds to the tree's current height.

In a practical sense, I agree that the tree's listed height will depend on what definition is being used, which in turn is determined by what the data will be used for. For many species the added height would be within the margin of error for most height measuring methods, but for those that add significant height a rule would need to exist so that the measurers are consistent.

Matt
by Matt Markworth
Wed May 11, 2016 10:24 pm
 
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Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Jared,

I'll look up the current champs of both species and get back to you.

Bob
by dbhguru
Fri May 20, 2016 9:54 pm
 
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Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Good Story!

As a former res of MA and SWO fan, I sometimes wondered what the record for SWO was there. So thanks!

I don't doubt that bigger ones are there off trail.

Good Work!
by Lucas
Tue May 24, 2016 1:23 pm
 
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Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Nice tree.

I used to pass by them on Water Row, etc. all the time when I was there but didn't have a clue what they were then. Something, I regret now.

Amazing luck on the weasels. You don't see them often.
by Lucas
Thu May 26, 2016 12:48 pm
 
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Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Jared,

I had measured a couple of large swamp white oaks in Concord several years ago but I wasn't sure which notebook I used to record the measurements. Luckily my parents were here this weekend and we decided to visit Walden Pond and the site where the Revolutionary War started (and where the big swamp white oaks are located). I already knew that one of the trees had died and I think it was the smaller one. I only made fairly quick measurements of the girth and height and I'd like to go back when the leaves are off and I can spend more time to make better measurements. Anyway, I ended up with a girth of 14.19' @ 3' 3" and a height of 75.1'. I measured the girth below a rather large burl and the girth may be slightly less a little lower. This is the largest swamp white oak I have ever seen in Massachusetts but there are likely some other big ones to be found in Concord, Bedford, Wayland and Sudbury among other places. Here are a couple pictures I took of the swamp white oaks in April several years back.

The first picture shows the swamp white oak that is now dead in the foreground on the left as well as the one that I measured yesterday.
SWO1.jpg

This next picture only shows the tree that I measured yesterday and you can clearly see all the burls on the trunk.
SWO2.jpg

Doug
by DougBidlack
Mon May 30, 2016 10:25 am
 
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Re: Oxbow NWR and two putative state champion trees

Image

I like it.

A gnarly old warrior Ent.
by Lucas
Wed Jun 15, 2016 11:44 am
 
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