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Re: Hello from the Sierra Nevada

Welcome! Some nice trees on your website- hope you can get some accurate heights to add to the posts. You're in the right place!

-Will
by Will Blozan
Sat Oct 03, 2015 9:33 am
 
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Re: More Big Trees To Report From The Sierra Nevada

Gaines,

Your report will send many of us back along memory lane. In 1964, as a young second lieutenant assigned to Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota, I sought wilderness experiences on the weekends in the nearby Black Hills. I would take a bedroll and go to a place called Joe Dollar Gulch that separated three mountain peaks clothed in old growth Ponderosa Pines. I would put my bedroll at the base of a fairly large Ponderosa and then climb Samelius Mountain for an extraordinary view of Harney Peak, highest point in the Black Hills. The climb required rock scrambling, but was not dangerous and the rewards were many.

Experiences like the one you described in California and mine in the Black Hills remain with us for a lifetime. They help define us as beings in nature. When one has slept beneath the boughs of a big tree and listened to the rustling of needles in nightly breezes, a lasting connection is forged to the trees, and a future Ent is born.

Bob
by dbhguru
Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:10 am
 
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Re: Sugar Pine Height Record Oblitterated

Michael,

Congratulations!! And I suppose that it is proper that it happened. The sugar pine is the rightful owner of the height as well as volume record. An 83-meter pine - WOW!

Bob
by dbhguru
Sat Oct 10, 2015 8:03 pm
 
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Re: Olympic National Park’s Kalaloch Cedar Destroyed by Stor

Here's one of my old pics.

kaloloch_800www.jpg
by mdvaden
Sun Oct 11, 2015 3:42 am
 
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Giant Ponderosa From Plumas National Forest

Using Google Earth I targeted the largest ponderosa crowns I could find in the Lumpkin Ridge area and relocated on foot. They were quite large and in charge.

See attached. I found a pair of giants off the road a little ways. One 7.5' dbh and the other 7.0' dbh. Both with very slow tapering trunks. I also saw a few huge sugar pines off in the distance that I will try to find later when/if I return to the area. This area was once known for giant pines, including a 15' dbh sugar pine that was logged near Clipper Mills. There are still a few nice old growth fragments left with exceptional specimens.
by M.W.Taylor
Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:27 am
 
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Re: Recommended tools?

One way to get a reasonably accurate laser is to buy a $99 laser range finder on Amazon or Ebay ( one without the vertical angle measurement). Then buy a $20 digital inclinometer (+,- .05 degree accuracy and direct read easy to find on Amazon) and paste it to the side with JBweld. Aim laser at tree top, get range and then hit the lock button on the inclinometer to lock in the angle. at the same time Then pull out a calculator or use your smartphone or something.. take sine of angle times the hypotenuse distance. You can get a very accurate measurement this way. But you have to have a calculator along side. Total cost $120. Accuracy equivalent to Trupulse200. Cost is 1/6

Hello NTS-ers,

I have a small question. Since all of you have more experience with tree measuring, I would like to ask for recommendations as to your favorite low to mid price range rangefinder, monocular-reticle, densitometer and hypsometer. This stems from me wanting to take the National Cadre class (assuming that there aren't any age restrictions on membership(I'm 13)), and so wanting to know what the right tools are.
Cheers,

- Duncan
by M.W.Taylor
Thu Oct 22, 2015 12:23 am
 
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Re: alarm for sugar maple in Adirondacks

I don't have much confidence in that research. The growth rate of maple or any other species depends on so many factors. If a forest is not thinned, sooner or later, growth rates will slow. If thinned, the growth rate may double for a decade or more. Aside from that, trees tend to slow down their growth in middle age- at least as measured by DBH growth, though since the tree is bigger, the actual growth in volume on that tree may not be decreasing and may even be increasing.

The decline in ring growth itself doesn't say anything about the health of the tree. it might be very healthy but the site its growing on may not be a good one. If the only measure is ring growth- that's just not enough to draw any conclusions. When I look at any tree- I can tell if it's doing well just by looking at it- regardless of the ring growth. So, some measure of crown health should have been made. Trees tend to die from the top down. If there is no sign of that top dieback, the tree is probably quite healthy.

The forests are loaded with lots of unhealthy trees as a result of mismanagement. Most forests in the northeast have been high graded- removing the healthiest, nicest trees. The article quotes a Harvard Forest researcher, "Most tree-ring studies of canopy trees in the region do not show a decline like what we see in these sugar maple." It would be nice if he explained what he meant by decline. It's not at all uncommon and I think it's actually expected that trees several decades old will show a decline in growth rate as measured by the rings- especially in an unmanaged forest. Or, does he mean that the normal decline in ring growth is greater than it might have been 50 years ago?

It may very well be the case that sugar maple is in decline in that area- but this research is too limited to know for sure. It's just a hint. Broad conclusions about forests or a species can't be made based on measuring a single variable.
Joe
by Joe
Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:18 am
 
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Re: New Mission at Fort Hill, Ohio Takes Shape

What would be very cool would be if a collection of the best, say, 100 photos of the biggest/oldest/best trees were put into a NTS sponsored coffee table book. I've seen hundreds of great photos in this forum, so I'm sure it would be easy to put together a collection. I happen to love big coffee table books which is why I periodically make this suggestion.

I think the public who sees the book would be astounded- since most people in the east think only redwoods get huge- since most eastern trees are toothpicks when, in fact, they can be extremely large. And in the west, who'd think Ponderosa Pine could be as huge as one photo posted recently in this forum?

The Sierra Club publishes books- so could he NTS? It would be a great way to advance the cause.
Joe
by Joe
Fri Oct 23, 2015 8:24 am
 
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Re: Recommended tools?

In addition to what Will stated, click over points become more important the farther you are from a tree. On a steep slope it can be a bit tricky because you want to make sure both shots are from the same height on the ground. On level ground you can move around more freely. On a steep slope you need to move left or right in most instances. Without using the click over point you can still get a fairly accurate reading but you'll be short changing the overall height anywhere from inches to a couple of feet, unless you are very far away, then you may be short changing the overall height by a yard or more.

At distance, the clinometer reading becomes more important. It's helpful if you lean against a solid object. Michael Taylor uses a tripod so that the clinometer stops completely and he can read to a tenth with dead on accuracy (he may be using a built in digital clinometer). A tenth of a degree doesn't change things much if you are very close but if you have to be a hundred yards out or more on a redwood it can make a very significant difference.

I'll have a chance to see that first-hand, as Taylor and I are planning to find and measure the gigantic Collins Ponderosa in Tehama County tomorrow.

I will keep these ideas in mind. That will help me use my rangefinder when I get it on the 13th (for my 14th birthday).

Congratulations Duncan! We're all envious. More than anything you exemplify "the kid" in us all. This has nothing to do with you being to young, but rather everything to do with us never growing up. This eternal "youthful vigor" that big tree hunting instills is perhaps its greatest gift. Often times I find myself as tall as the surrounding trees because of it.
by sradivoy
Fri Nov 06, 2015 7:00 am
 
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Re: Fork Ridge Tuliptree- new eastern height record!!!

I was wondering if the the Fork Ridge tulip is the tallest known tree east of the Sierra's? Also, what is the tallest known tree in the Rocky Mountain state? The west coast is in class by itself and perhaps should be considered separately. The forests of the Rocky mountains are pretty well isolated on both sides (a vast desert to its west and the Great Plains to the east) which in my opinion makes it a separate contiguous ecosystem in its own right. Appalachia and the west coast are the two other contiguous forests that are naturally partitioned from each other. I see three main sections here rather than two.
by sradivoy
Sat Nov 07, 2015 2:23 pm
 
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Re: Goodbye Redwoods, Hello Marijuana

The solution is simple. Legalize it. This will immediately take away the black market profit and the price will drop to the floor. Then there will be no incentive to cut forests and divert creeks for illegal gardens. As a regular explorer in the coastal and Sierra ranges of California, I frequently see large trees being cleared for growing operations and also entire creeks being diverted. I also see trash and chemicals left behind older operations. I have no doubt I would be shot if I was seen walking in there during the operation.

Legalize it. This will stop the insanity.

Law Enforcement and prision guard unions do not want this because millions of their jobs depend on Marijuana being illegal and the prision system kept full of non-violent pot smokers. Stop the madness. Legalize it. Put the drug dealers and these greedy, corrupt police unions out of busniess. let em' figure out a more ethical way to make a living.

It has nothing to do with health issues or kids getting marijuana. If the powers that be were concerned about our kids getting drugs then why are there currently 4.5 million school kids being forcefully doped up on ritalin ? It certainly makes kids more compliant, even if they do drool a little.



I'm posting this video because its a real eye opener. We all know the destructive history of logging in northern California and the Northwest as a whole. We also know that a large portion of this clear-cut land has been left to regrow. Well not only is this second growth being destroyed, but apparently the protected old growth is also starting to be invaded for illegal marijuana growing.
I'm not some anti-pot smoking prohibitionist nor am I a burnt out hippie but come on! Either LEGALIZE it and REGULATE it or crack down on it! I predict that soon you will see clear-cuts in the middle of places like, Jedediah Smith, Humboldt, and Prairie Creek Redwood State Parks in the near future. Did you know that if you walk through the famous Founders Grove, and head a little north...your smack in the middle of a nice pot operation complete with greenhouses ect? There are two there matter of fact and three years ago this land was forested redwoods. Look on Google earth, its right there.
I'm all for not widening hwy 101 through Richardson Grove because it would remove a few old growth Redwoods. There's a lot of outrage and groups of people that meet to protest over this while lighting up joints that were manufactured by tearing down Redwood trees. It would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
Enjoy the video.


http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/02/google-earth-tour-marijuana-farms-environment-video
by M.W.Taylor
Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:06 pm
 
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You are not authorised to read this forum.
by mdvaden
Fri Nov 13, 2015 12:05 pm
 
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You are not authorised to read this forum.
by sradivoy
Fri Nov 13, 2015 6:24 am
 
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You are not authorised to read this forum.
by John Harvey
Fri Nov 13, 2015 4:28 pm
 
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You are not authorised to read this forum.
by M.W.Taylor
Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:08 pm
 
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Re: Redwood Coast - Autumn / Winter & 2015 / 2016

Here's one from a Grogan Fault adventure with Atkins. I think that the bigleaf maples in RNP are just as lovely as the ones up in Olympic NP.
by mdvaden
Sun Nov 15, 2015 11:22 pm
 
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Sempervirens, even after death...

I came across something pretty fascinating yesterday in Big Basin. Two old growth trees have fused into each other but not before a large log had fallen between them. The trees continued to fuse for....a very long time around this log. Obviously the logs of most species would have decayed long before the trees fused. It shows how long even dead wood lasts in these forests and it also shows how some trees that appear as single stem are actually multiple trees. One photo shows the log from the other side where the tress have not fused yet.
by John Harvey
Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:18 pm
 
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You are not authorised to read this forum.
by John Montague
Sun Nov 22, 2015 10:19 pm
 
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Re: Olympic National Park’s Kalaloch Cedar Destroyed by Stor

That Cedar has special meaning for me, as it was the first living "big tree" that I had ever seen, and was also the tree that inspired me to start my local big trees project.

Mine too Duncan. It appears we have something in common by way of the same tree. It exists at the very core of my being. I carry it inside me wherever I go. Glad to see that this awe inspiring tree was able to inspire you at such a tender young age. Who knows, it may have guided toward a career path. Too early to say, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did. It reminds me of a wrap around mural with a long, complex story to tell. From it I see first hand on what can happen when I tree is loved to death. Its like a slow motion stampede. As a sacrificial show tree Kalaloch is the main reason why I take such a hard line stance in preserving and protecting other vulnerable trees from human impact. It has many lessons to be told within it.

Stefan
by sradivoy
Sat Nov 28, 2015 12:47 pm
 
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Re: Web cams.

James-
The West in general has been in an extended drought, and in conjunction with federal land manager's right-hearted but wrong-minded (unaware of our more current, more thoroughly researched understanding) managment, we've suppressed the natural, high frequency but low burn intensity fires for a century or more, and brought about perilously high densities of regeneration. While not everywhere in the West shares the fire-adapted ecosystem species as the Southwest, Kings Canyon and Yosemite are of similar nature and subject to similar fates. Fates that reoccur every July/August/September wioth monsoonal flushes of humidity, moisture, disturbed air masses that lead to wet and dry lightning events. It's not bad enough that we have as you've pointed out, many drought-killed trees, we have many lightning ignitions in areas of high density regeneration, and drought-stricken "vets".
Mario- You are absolutely accurate in your pronouncements (although of droughts so severe, and environmental changes outside of their natural range of variation)...let us hope that we as a public land owner are learning from these "educational experiences"!
by Don
Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:50 am
 
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Tree List Template

NTS,

I periodically make modifications to my tree documentation spreadsheet and have included a template here in case it is helpful to anyone. This has been a topic in the past and I've taken ideas from Bob, Ed, Jess and others and added a few of my own. I'm interested in what columns others like to have so please reply with additional columns that you like to use.

The columns are sequenced/color-coded to answer five main questions: what, where, when, who and how. A sixth category is for report and photo hyperlinks.

Here are the columns:

" What "

Tree # - This is very convenient because I automatically know which tree it is based on my methodology (instead of just a number) and I also name waypoints and photos based on the tree # so it keeps me organized. My methodology for arriving at a number is to take the first letter of each word in the site name, the first letter of the genus, the first letter of the species and a # representing the order that the tree was measured for that species. For example, the 5th Quercus macrocarpa measured at For Example Park would be numbered FEPQM5. As an additional example, the 3rd Quercus muehlenbergii measured at For Example Park would be numbered FEPQMU3 (because QM was already used).

Species (Scientific)

Species (Common)

CBH (ft) – Only because I can quickly form a mental picture of size easier with feet, compared to inches or centimeters. Those columns could easily be added for a more specialized list designed for a specific purpose.

Height (ft)

Average Spread (ft)

Max Spread (ft)

Form – Forest-grown or Open-grown; I’m more interested in the form of the tree itself, as opposed to the current state of whether or not there are trees currently growing around it. For example, if a big wide-spreading woodland oak has trees growing up around it I would indicate open-grown and add a note. A tree with intermediate form can also be placed in the column along with a note describing the characteristics of the tree.

Notes

" Where "

Site

State

Elevation (ft)

Aspect

Latitude

Longitude
(Latitude and Longitude in separate columns so that trees can easily be ordered East/West or North/South)

" When "

Date

" Who "

Measurer(s)

" How "

Measurement Method – Laser rangefinder used, etc.

Additional Columns

Reference – hyperlink to external report

Photos – hyperlinks to external photos

You’ll notice I also like to have filters at the top of each column and I like to freeze the top row and freeze the first two columns so that when I scroll down or to the right I can still see the top row and those two columns. Please feel free to use if it is helpful and share additional best practices.

Tree List Template.xlsx

Matt
by Matt Markworth
Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:37 pm
 
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Re: Oregons largest tree?

A redwood tree has been discovered in Oregon that quickly jumps to the top largest tree known in Oregon! The tree is 18.5' DBH, 298' tall (tallest known redwood in Oregon), and approximately 17000 cubic feet! The discovery of this tree makes Oregon a new large-redwood frontier. John Montague, Steve Moore, and I all feel like we've barely scratched the surface of the large Oregon redwoods!
by yofoghorn
Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:43 pm
 
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Re: In search of BIG TREES

Duncan-
I feel like I should properly introduce myself.

My name is Don Bertolette. I'm a native northern Californian having been born in Sacramento and spending pre-school years in Susanville, before moving all around the state. I returned to northern California in the late 1960s to major in Forestry at Humboldt State College (now a State University). Among the many national forests that I worked in over the years of my forestry career, the years I spent on the Plumas (East Zone engineering) were among my favorites.

Like others of us on this BBS, I've noted your interest and enthusiasm, and am "thinking" you're on your way to success. Some of the cues to my "thinking" are:
1)the article about you, and this other fellow (Michael Taylor) you brought along for 'scale' in the photo, in the Plumas County newspaper,
2)your own blog! I'm in the middle of a wordpress revamping of my own webpage, and am very impressed with your up and running wordpress blog! For those BBS readers following this thread, check out Duncan's blog at https://sierracountybigtrees.wordpress.com/ , with dated narratives and photos documenting your big tree adventures.

I can't help but think your family members are learning as much as you are, as you sashay through the woods seeking the "big'uns"! Do keep after your dream, it will take you where you need to go.

That said, I'd like you to feel invited into the Western Native Tree Society (WNTS), if that fellow Michael Taylor hasn't already invited you. We certainly would welcome your enthusiasm!
-Don
by Don
Wed Jan 27, 2016 1:09 am
 
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Re: New Tallest Sierra Lodgepole Pine

Duncan,

I thought your opening post was perfectly clear. Within the context of the variety, the trees you measured are very tall. Even if they aren’t record setting, I think it’s good that you posted them. If you have a source saying 124’ was the record and I read something implying the species has been recorded at over 150’, then obviously what the record actually is is not clear. Posting measurements helps us to understand what is truly exceptional for the species. I still suspect you’ll eventually find ones taller than in the Buck Lakes area.

Brian,
You might want to hold off on the remeasurements. In November and December I tried to remeasure all the significant trees at Station Cove and Tamassee Knob. The next week is going to be the busiest of the year for me, but I’ll do an update post after that.

Jess
by Jess Riddle
Sat Jan 30, 2016 11:39 am
 
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Mount Pleasant Research Natural Area, CA

Nts,

A few years ago I had an opportunity to explore the Mount Pleasant Research Natural Area ( http://www.fs.fed.us/psw/programs/rna/mount_pleasant.shtml ). The unusual dominance, fast growth, and abundant reproduction of red fir set apart the area as exceptional and prompted the Forest Service to set it aside for research. Located within the Bucks Lake Wilderness Area in the northern Sierras, the area receives over 80 inches of precipitation each year, which by the beginning of April leads to an average snow pack of eight feet. Despite lying adjacent to the rugged North Fork of the Feather River gorge, gentle slopes make up most of the RNA and generally range between 6000 and 6800’ elevation.

When I visited, I found a stunning turquoise forest framed by brilliant azure skies and abundant wildflowers. Bright yellow wolf lichens on maroon trunks completed the palette. As advertised, red fir dominated. At the lower end of the watershed, white fir mixed with them, and lodgepole pine flanked the wet areas along the streams. The forest was often dense with three and four foot diameter firs almost piled on top of each other, but large openings were also common.

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Jess
by Jess Riddle
Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:03 pm
 
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