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Re: Moravia, NY, Cottonwood


I think I am a splitter as needed to maintain what I see as a valid data set. I want to make sure the big tree lists maintain an internal integrity. On the other hand, I have championed the idea that we should be collecting data on multitrunk trees and trees of other weird forms. That was the point of the article I wrote: Multitrunk Trees, Woody Vines, and Other Forms I want to include these other forms in our dataset, even if they are not the idealized single trunk model and have proposed ways to measure them. The columns for inclusion of multitrunk trees are in the spreadsheet I wrote, and I have been working with Mitch Galehouse in his implementation of the NTS Trees database so that the multitrunk specimens cane be properly recorded. So I would counter that you can be both a splitter and be pushing for a broader inclusion and representation in the dataset.

There needs to be a balance between lumping and splitting when looking at sets of data. If you lump too many things together then they become a mish-mash of different objects that lack a coherent theme that is useful for expanding your understanding of the set. If there is too much splitting, then each individual is its own class and you can't look at relationships between objects as easily. So really I don't think it is a matter of splitters versus lumpers. We are splitting the data only to the degree needed to make it useful, and further lumping would only hurt the overall goals. I want to keep records for and acknowledge the superlatives of the different forms, but see it as a detriment to mix different form trees together in a single list.

by edfrank
Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:15 pm
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Re: Maple Height Record - Humboldt Honey - 157.8 ft.


Great find! I was awaiting the news on that one!

Michael and Zane,

No way. You all cannot dethrone our tuliptree as the tallest native hardwood in N.A.! We ENTS will not allow it! ;)

by Will Blozan
Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:21 pm
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Re: The Sgerm Spruce – the tallest native European tree?


What kind of precipitation falls in that region? How about temperatures? I'm wondering if the the climate there is similar to around Woodstock, VT where I have the two Norways at 140.5 and 140.0 feet in height. The Woodstock tree were planted around 1877. So in 135 years, they've reached 140 feet or 42.7 meters. If the Vermont trees can average no more than 4 inches of new growth annually, at an age of 250 years, they would be around 178 feet (54.4 meters). At some future date, the Norway may challenge the native white pine as the tallest northeastern species. Who knows.

Thanks again for these inspiring posts.

by dbhguru
Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:38 pm
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Re: Fernbank Forest, GA - Rucker 10 Index reaches 136'

Update: tallest Pinus taeda has broken 144' now... the R10 continue to climb! I also suspect with additional searching a taller Lirio will be found, along with a taller Tilia and Carya species...
by eliahd24
Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:38 pm
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Delta National Forest McCain Bayou Cypress Part II

NTS- I went back up to the Delta NF this past Saturday but only could stay for the day. Since my time was short I decided to go back to the McCain Bayou area where I had previously reported on a couple of large Cypress. I brought a 4 wheeler after obtaining a permit and rode in on the McCain Bayou Trail to about 1/2 mile. The trail comes in from the north and then runs southeast towards the Bayou then along it. I stopped and walked westward a few hundred yards where a small Lake had formed looking for large Cypress. McCain Bayou Cypress Grove 2.jpg As I came closer to the Lake I started seeing some large Cypress in along the Lake. There must be a dozen or so of large Cypress in this area and I only measured two that were on the edge. The first I'll call Cypress IV had a height of 95' and an estimated CBH of 24-26'. Cypress 4.jpg I was able to get in the water around the tree to 12" deep so my estimation is close. Thirteen feet above the Basal Flare the tree was still 14' in Circumference. Cypress V had an estimated CBH of 22-24' and was a little taller to 105.5'. Cypress 5.jpg This was such a beautiful little Lake area loaded with large Cypress and lots of Ducks. I have to come back with a raft or small skiff for more documentation of these great trees. I hope to get back up with my Boat for a trip to the Cypress Botanical Research Area in the southeastern area of the Forest with Jess Riddle before spring gets here. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:38 am
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Germantown Metropark, OH

Hi All,

I never realized how satisfying accurately measuring a tree can be, but now I know! I want to say thank you to everyone that has been involved with writing the various tree measuring guidelines and to everyone that actively posts on the BBS. There are several sites in SW Ohio that I want to document and I think Germantown Metropark will be one of the best. I’ll keep measuring and report my findings.

Here is a video of a magnificent Tuliptree, Hgt: 150.3’, CBH: 10.5’. I especially enjoyed finding the twisted American Hornbeam next to the Tuliptree. Enjoy the Thoreau quote, all Librivox recordings are in the public domain.

The Scholar with American Hornbeam.JPG

- Matt
by Matt Markworth
Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:53 pm
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Accurately Measuring the Height of (Real) Forest Trees

Accurately Measuring the Height of (Real) Forest Trees
by Don Bragg

Journal of Forestry 112(1):51-54



by edfrank
Tue Mar 18, 2014 10:00 am
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Gallery Exhibit April 3 - July 1, 2014

The Gallery at Constitution Plaza in Hartford, CT, will be exhibiting a few of my graphic music tree-leaf scores and a video of one of my works for piano and soundscape. I have been working on the graphic leaf music works for three months now, and finally they are finished.

The opening reception will be 4:30 – 6:30 pm, Thursday, April 3rd. The exhibit will run through July 1, 2014

Free admission, and VALIDATED PARKING – use the Constitution Plaza South Garage.

Here’s a link to the Gallery page website:

and to the event listing on CT Office of the Arts Facebook page:!/events/560924947336482/

For any questions, please contact:
Connecticut Office of the Arts
1 Constitution Plaza, 2nd Fl., Hartford, CT 06103
860-256-2735 phone

E-vite - Michael Gatonska - Natural Selections Exhibition.jpg


Audio recording of Treesong I (Meditations and Colour Correspondences - Arboreal Night Music V), performed by Monica Jakuc Leverett, piano. 11/26/2013 Sweeney Concert Hall, Smith College
by michael gatonska
Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:42 pm
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Botanist from Michigan

Hello, I am Greg. Measuring trees and estimating vegetation structure by species for the soil survey in western Michigan is my day job. I lead hikes every spring in the GSMNP and always carry a DBH tape. My metric DBH tape always throws foresters off, because the increments of cm DBH looks a great deal like straight inches, and vice versa.
by gjschmidt
Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:05 pm
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Donaldson's Woods (IN)


I recently had the pleasure of visiting Donaldson’s Woods in Indiana. The interesting features are almost too many to count: sinkholes, caves, gorge, old trees, complex crowns, open understory, and a high % of white oaks compared to other forests I’ve visited. In Southwest Ohio I'd have to be in a ravine to find these heights, so the feature that surprised me the most is that with the exception of the walnuts and sycamores, all of these tall trees were on the gently rolling Karst topography and did not require deep ravines.

Rand visited this site in 2008 and put together a great site description and there were many replies that provide even more detail on the history/geology of the site. Here is the link: I’d also like to say thanks again to Rand for his explanation of Indiana LiDAR. The first tree I measured was the 155.9' tuliptree and I walked right up to it using GPS coordinates. I believe this may be the tallest known tree in Indiana. I was also very pleased to find 7 species over 130’.

The walnuts and sycamores are located in the gorge that contains the stream flowing out of Donaldson Cave, which is adjacent to Donaldson’s Woods. Spring Mill State Park and Mitchell Sinkhole Plain are also adjacent to the site. It's also important to note that with the exception of one cave that provides a guided tour, all of the other caves are closed because of white-nose syndrome that kills bats.

tuliptree: 12'10" x 155.9'
tuliptree: 13'9.5" x 152.4'
hickory (unknown ID): 6'7.5" x 138.2'
shagbark hickory: 7'8.5" x 137.5'
shagbark hickory: 6'1" x 124.5'
black walnut: 8'1" x 137.4'
black walnut: 134.8'
American sycamore: 8'6.5" x 134.2'
American sycamore: 133.7'
American sycamore: 9'2" x 131.3'
northern red oak: 8'7" x 132.5'
northern red oak: 13'4" x 130'
white oak: 8' .5" x 131.5'
white oak: 12'6" x 127.6'

typical scene.jpg

DSCN2347 155.9 TT - small.jpg

DSCN2382 155.9 TT - small.jpg

DSCN2349 155.9 TT - small.jpg

138.2 hickory (unknown id) - small.jpg

138.2 hickory bark (unknown id).jpg

137.5 shagbark hickory - small.jpg

134.2 sycamore and 137.4 black walnut - small.jpg

127.6 white oak and 132.5 NRO - small.jpg

131.5 white oak - small.jpg

Donaldson's Cave 1 - small.jpg

Donaldson's Cave 2 - small.jpg

by Matt Markworth
Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:37 pm
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Why big trees? My personal story.

Just something I typed up tonight, maybe you can relate?

People often ask me why I run around the country chasing big trees. They ask me how I can “hunt” something that cant run or move. They ask me why these giants of the forest are so important to me. The answer is not really a simple one. I believe I was destined to find them. I believe this because there were many incidents in my life that led me in this direction.

When I was a small child I had a vivid, translucent, dream. I was lost inside a thick forest of sky scraping trees. I had no direction or purpose. Tangled in thick and thorn I struggled on until I came out into a clearing, a grassy glade of soft sunlight. Before me, upon a plateau, was a giant tree, a true “father of the forest”. Its gnarled, twisting trunk, seemed suspended high in the air. It was a species no longer found in our world. Its girth still matches the largest redwoods I have seen in person to this day. Its un-tapering height still has no earthly rival. As I gazed upon it, a deep peace came over me. I felt found. I had answers and justification for the wilderness I had traversed. An ancientness covered my soul. Over the years I have had thousands of similar dreams but none like the first.

My first reality based experience with a large tree was when I was 11 years old. Two of my friends and I were trying to blaze a path to a fishing hole through a second growth tulip poplar forest. We went astray and came upon the edge of a farmers field. When we climbed the fence, there was a massive tulip poplar standing before us. I had always carried the memory of my dream and this seemed eerily similar to me. All three of us stood there for a minute admiring the tree. It stood around 140' high and 22' around the base. Its trunk only seemed to increase in size as it rose. It was definitely old growth and many times older than the trees around it. When I mentioned the tree to my father and other locals in the area, they all knew of it. Many of them had played inside its hollow trunk as children. Even my friends 85 year old grandmother claimed it to be a giant when she was a child. This experience didn’t change my life until I took on a new job many years later. A job my sister had found for me when I was out of work and desperate.

As an employee of a tree trimming service and a subcontractor of the power company, I spent my days high in a bucket, cutting branches away from power lines. Sometimes I was on the ground chipping the logs and branches that fell from above. It was hard, dirty, and dangerous work, but the pay was fair and for a twenty three year old without a college degree, it was a blessing. Sure, poison ivy year round, dog bites, reckless drivers, possible loss of limbs to chain saws and wood chippers, falling logs, and risk of electrocution isn’t everyone’s cup of tea, but there is something about one of the worlds most dangerous jobs that assures a young man that he is a man. The crew was filled with real men; burly, hairy, strong, yet mostly uneducated specimens of manhood. This is why it always impressed me when the men began talking about the trees they were trimming. They knew everything about them. Most of the men were veterans and knew how to identify over one hundred different types of trees. They knew their size potential, could estimate their ages, identify their flowers and fruits, and most of all, knew the easiest ways to chop them down. You see, most of the job was in fact trimming, but there were always jobs when felling was required as well. I never minded felling a tree if the job called for it but one job in particular made me uneasy. Next to a road, wedged between power lines and a golf course, was a gigantic Silver Maple. The foreman placed his hand on the massive trunk , turned to the crew and said, “Boys this the second largest Silver Maple in the state, and today she has to come down. “ The tree had been trimmed many times before but was growing too large to be in its location, so the decision was made. I stood next to the bucket truck and watched as one of my crew removed the top branches. Later two of the more experienced men sawed through the trunk and felled the giant. After I helped cut the downed tree into smaller pieces, I walked over to the stump. I got down on my hands and knees and started counting the rings of the tree. One, two, three…eighty-five, eighty-six, eighty-seven…two hundred ten, two hundred eleven, two hundred twelve …Two hundred and thirty years old, or at least that’s what I thought I counted. This tree was alive before the Declaration of Independence and it took less than two hours to bring it down. Although it didn’t change my opinion on felling trees, it did put a tinge of sadness in my heart, and more importantly, peaked my interest in the history of New Jersey’s largest and oldest trees. The rest of my time on the job focused on saving trees rather than destroying them. That summer, I would call up my friends, return to the woods, and rediscover my ancient tulip poplar once again, this time with a whole new admiration.

Over the years I made a point to visit this poplar on the most important days of my life. Through grief and joy, I was looking for answers. I sought the peace I remembered from that slumber so long ago. My girlfriends knew her. My family saw her. The day my grandmother died, I visited her. The morning my first child was born, I sat beneath her branches. When I had a big decision to make, I meditated there with her.
One morning in late 2012 I made my way back through the forest and found that the tree had fallen in a storm a week earlier. Several smaller and weaker trees were shattered in the fall. I had lost a friend. I took one of her last live leaves home with me. It is nestled inside an album next to my first photo of the tree.

Over the years I have beheld some of the worlds largest, tallest, and oldest. I have found lost and forgotten giants and wandered through secret and hidden groves of enchanted trees. I may have dreamed, but I never dreamed anything like this. Wide awake and full of wonder, I’m still amazed at the natural treasures in our world. In spite of this, people continue to ask me the same questions. Why search? Why the trees? Why carry around my childhood dream? I answer with this...

I’ve always found peace in the quiet and solitary places. I’ve drawn my inspiration from the forest and mountains. I have learned that the most perfect peace one can find is alone, surrounded by the arms of nature and God. I can only imagine what it would have been like to explore America when it was an untamed and wild forest. The great unknown and the possibility of discovery has always enchanted me.
I have lived so many places and I have lost so much; my dearest friends, my closest lovers, and myself at times. The changes I have experienced have led me to believe that nothing in life is secure. Friends and family die and lovers leave. Dreams are blown away like dust and precious times slip through our fingers like sand. Uncertainty rages like an angry ocean and the future rises like a tidal wave to wash away the happy moments that we cling to. We are only left with memories. We are only left with ourselves.
I guess in a way I can relate with my giant trees. Some have stood against all odds through a millennium or more. Standing tall and weathering a thousand ferocious storms, steadfast and determined. Countless others smaller and some many times greater ripped away from the earth only to return to dust in their presence. Some were alive as many as two hundred years before the founding of our great nation, watching the children of many generations play beneath their branches.
I too know what it is like to see those close to me die and to weather the storms of life when it seemed as though I was standing on my own. I know what it is like to stand alone, in the middle of a forest or the edge of a field wishing someone would pass by and see how strong and beautiful I was. I have also felt fragile in times of uncertainty and wished to be mighty and everlasting. This is why I admire these old and quiet giants. I stand in awe in their presence and somehow relate to their old and scared trunks. Some have lost their mightiest and most prized branches as I have lost so many important pieces of me. As I sit beneath their shade I am reminded that only the strong survive. Something within this tree and something within me has weathered these storms, and that is why we both stand here today.

In short, I realize now that the tree in my dream as a child was in Once I endured the storms of life, I became the tree and I was found. Peace had to be realized through trail and fire.
by John Harvey
Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:21 am
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Visit to Fork Ridge Tulip Poplar and nearby LIDAR hits

Last week I took a 3 day solo backpacking trip into the Deep Creek watershed of GSMNP with three purposes in mind.

1. to get some rejuvenation time in the woods
2. to check up on the Fork Ridge Tulip Poplar - the tallest known Tulip Poplar in the world.
3. to do an exhaustive ground search in 7 other coves within a 1.5 mile radius of the FRTP that correspond to 7 additional 190 foot+ LIDAR hits.

I accomplished points 1 and 2 and had a fair amount of success with #3 as well. Here’s my report.

The FRTP was measured in April 2011 by tape drop to be 191.9 feet (see ). Until Bart's recent post on the Grandfather Oak in Costa Rica, the FRTP was the tallest accurately measured native angiosperm in North America (see ). I remeasured the FRTP using my Nikon 440 to 191.2 feet tall -- well within acceptable error of the 3 year old tape drop value. The tree is magnificent and shows no signs of damage from the past winter that was marked by plenty of ice storms and snow.

Here’s a panorama of the cove that holds the FRTP:

And here’s a video pan up the FRTP taken one evening during the fog and drizzle, as well as a stitched picture taken when it was a bit clearer.

The FRTP towers 20 feet or more over 5 other tulip poplars within just 50 feet of it. This degree of dominance over adjacent trees of the same species seems unusual to me. The eastern facing cove with its ample sunlight, protection from prevailing winds, and other cove characteristics combine -- with the FRTP’s favorable growth habit (unforked trunk up to 120 feet tall) and the good fortune of having evaded storm damage that has clearly affected neighboring tree -- to make a truly unique and apparently unrivaled specimen.

Not far from the FRTP is another superlative tulip poplar – a 21’1” CBH tree that I measured to 172.7’. It is undoubtedly much older than the 18’ CBH FRTP and it likewise towers 20 feet or more over the rest of the surrounding canopy. This tree is referred to as the Polk Patch Giant and was mentioned by Will Blozan in his post linked above wherein he detailed the tape drop of the FRTP. I believe they got a height of 179'. Here are a number of pictures of that tree. The first one was taken by Josh Kelly and shows Will Blozan at the base of the tree in 2011. The others are current pictures I took last week.

For perspective here is a panorama of the cove that holds this giant tree:

Here is Will at the base (Josh Kelly photo)

The entire tree

The cove uphill of the tree

The emergent crown of the same tree as seen from across the river

Ian Beckheimer and Josh Kelly have both spent some time searching for trees in the coves and mountainsides surrounding the FRTP. They never found anything taller than the FRTP, but both suggested that further exploration was needed. Before detailing my most recent attempt to ground truth LIDAR hits I should point out that the LIDAR data I have access to computes the ground elevation based on 60 foot squares. LIDAR data density for the GSMNP theoretically enables an footprint squares of 30 feet per side. The 60 foot squares create a more manageable GIS file, but it tends to over estimate LIDAR hits on steep terrain. That said my LIDAR file shows the FRTP as a 194’ hit – remarkably close to its actual height. There are 7 other 190’+ LIDAR hits that I was hopeful would result in the discovery of a second or third 190’ tall tulip poplar.

I set out to find visit those 7 sites early on my first full day after reaching my base camp. However, I severely underestimated the difficulty of bushwhacking in this area. Many times I had to scramble through or over rhododendron thickets and more than once I had to retreat and backtrack after encountering briar patches over 5 feet tall. I also had to navigate 4 crossings through 40 degree temperature rivers that were swollen from the 2 inches of rain that fell the day before. I hiked over 5 miles that day, off trail for most of it, with 1800 feet of cumulative elevation gain as I scrambled over 3 mountain ridges.

One beautiful mountain stream. Crossing it was daunting to say the least. Notice the nearly impassable rhododendron thickets on both sides.

Because of these challenges I was only able to visit 4 of the 7 coves I hoped to before exhaustion and nightfall striped me of all desire to continue. These 4 were coves that harbored promising LIDAR hits of 192, 192, 195, and 200’. In each case the LIDAR hits corresponded to superlative tulip poplars but in no case were they as tall as suggested by LIDAR. As I approached the GPS coordinates of each hit, the tulip poplars would get larger and larger. 140 and 150 feet tall poplars were a dime a dozen and I soon learned not to “waste time” measuring any but the largest trees. One particularly disappointing cove that suggested a 192 footer only contained a 142 tall tree. The other 192 LIDAR hit corresponded to a 165.3’ tall tulip poplar on the side of an unbelievable steep part of a ravine. The 195’ LIDAR hit ended up guiding me right to a 173.5’ tall, 11’8” CBH tulip poplar. Here is a picture of it:

The highest LIDAR hit, a tantalizing 200 footer, resulted in the discovery of a 170.3 foot tall 19’1” CBH tulip poplar. The full size picture I have is not very good quality. I refer to this as the grumpy old man tulip poplar because of a burl on the trunk near ground level that looks to me (or at least it did in my delirious state at that time) like a grumpy old sour puss face.

Even though I didn't find any new 180 or 190 foot tulip poplars on this trip, it was a real treat to visit the 191 foot tall FRTP. I slept soundly that night, regaining my energy for the long, uphill hike back to the car the next morning. On the way back I took time to take some pictures of the forest floor awakening to the promise of Spring.

Unknown flower


"Spring beauties"

Yellow violets

Unknown flowers

The sun finally came out just as I was getting back to the car.

Once back at the car, I drove the 10 miles or so up to Clingman's Dome on the NC/TN boarder and was surprised to see this in early April:

Entire photo album from the trip:
by pdbrandt
Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:28 pm
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Some international scientific recognition for the NTS

While searching a journal recently for some unrelated research articles, I came across the following studies that had been recently published that may be of interest to NTS:

Larjavaara, M. 2014. The world's tallest trees grow in thermally similar climates. New Phytologist 202:344–349. doi: 10.1111/nph.12656

Tng, D.Y.P., Williamson, G.J., Jordan, G.J. and Bowman, D.M.J.S. 2012. Giant eucalypts – globally unique fire-adapted rain-forest trees? New Phytologist 196:1001–1014. doi: 10.1111/j.1469-8137.2012.04359.x

(I'm not sure if these are open access or behind the journal's paywall; I found these at work, and we have a government subscription, so I can access them regardless).

While I have some issues with some of the materials presented, that is not why I embarked on writing this post. If you dig deep enough into the supplemental materials, you can find where some of their data comes from...In addition to a few of the more conventional big tree websites, key NTS members are mentioned specifically for their work: Roman Dial and Robert Van Pelt. In addition to these specific mentions, a number of their citations come from the NTS website.

I also followed the link for Australia's big tree website, which pretty much lists the same tree measuring instructions as American Forests (, but they do have at the very bottom of this page a link to a "memorandum" from the Native Tree Society on "measurement issues"--it is Will Blozan's 2004 ENTS tree measuring guidelines PDF! Other tall tree information came from Forestry Tasmania's work with their tall eucalypts--they've been searching for tall trees via a combination of on-the-ground spotting and LiDAR surveys; I couldn't find details for sure, but I believe they use the sine method as their laser measurement tool (see this link for the reference:

So, even if we're not seeing much progress with some of the mainstream forest and forestry groups, more and more people are recognizing the value of proper tree measurement! This really goes to show that the NTS mission of collecting accurate tree dimensional data has great utility, and is a mission we must continue with...
by DonCBragg
Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:11 pm
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Miami Whitewater Forest (OH)

Hi All,

I had two goals on this day, measure ten species and spend more time measuring than looking. Next time, I'll spend more time looking for tall trees.

This Hamilton County park is 4,345 acres and has a little something for everyone, including those that appreciate big trees. . Note that the pine is located in a disturbed area that includes Boxelder, Honeylocust and Eastern Red Cedar.



American Beech small file.jpg
White Oak 1 small file.jpg

- Matt
by Matt Markworth
Sat Jan 26, 2013 2:32 pm
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Big Laurel Creek, Hot Springs, NC

This trail is actually in the town of Hurricane, just over the mountain from Hot Springs, trailtown NC. It follows a rather large stream on a an old railbed for half of its journey. I was on a family hike so I just hit a few standout trees. I'll follow up at some point. The hardwoods are young and relatively small. Only a few sycamores crack 100'. Tulips likely attain more height up the mountainside but they are short by the river. Hornbeams are the only impressive hardwood. They dot the edge of the stream and attain respectable girth. Many are multi-stemmed but several singles top 1' diameter.

The stars of this trail are the conifers. Hemlocks are almost 100% alive and doing well. There are hundreds of healthy hemlocks! I don't know what kind of treatment has been applied but it is working. I noticed just a few white spots on some young hemlocks. The older ones along the stream have decent girth but are short and squat. They appear to be considerably taller uphill. I measured just a couple. The white pines remind me of the pines on the Chattooga River. They are a bit smaller than the Chattooga's and are thin with reiterated crowns. They have some age but it's a difficult guess as to how much age. They grow amongst rhododendron hells. Many are uphill and may be taller but it's difficult to gauge where the bottoms are. The conifers are the only trees which appear to be above 70 years of age.

Tsuga canadensis 114.9' 109.4'

Pinus strobus 158.8' 153.0' 150.9' 150.9'

by bbeduhn
Mon Apr 21, 2014 11:19 am
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Re: Untranslatable Words

Allemansrätten : In Sweden and the other scandinavian countries this generally is the "right to roam," which means you can go hiking, walking, biking, camping, berry-picking, and do other non-destructive outdoor activities anywhere in the countryside, even on other people's private property. There isn't the concept of "no trespassing" or "posted" land in the way that we have it here in the U.S.
by PAwildernessadvocate
Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:05 pm
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Re: A Tree Journal


It's great to read these poems about trees. I hope they save the Cotati albino Redwood.

My recent visit to the old growth Liverpool, NY School Maple Grove inspired me to write the following poem:

Liverpool Maple Grove

Columns in irregular ranks
Compose a sky-roofed temple,
Smooth lacy beech blends
With congregations of rough gray
Sugar maple,
These old trees the
Frames of clouds drifting
Above twisting spiring crowns.

This is how the world used to be,
A temple adorning the
Landscape for long miles
Of valleys, hills,

And here,
Behind an abandoned school,
They live,
Trees that remember the ancient times,
The passenger pigeons bending
Beech limbs in multitudinous roosts,
Wolves roaming the long
Airy aisles,

And the old trees live on –
The giants of a lost past leaf out
Into a barren modern age,
Unseen, forgotten,
Even by we who profess
Love for this natural world
That vanishes from our
Warming, sunburning Earth.

I have several other poems about trees in my collection Beneath the Big Oaks, which is available on Amazon Kindle.

Tom Howard
by tomhoward
Sun Apr 27, 2014 12:50 pm
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The Missing Piece

Clifton E French Regional Park is a cool park that I grew up in. For years I thought I knew every inch of the place. A couple years ago I realized there was a small sliver of woods, hidden in a remote corner of the park, with no main trails into it, that I had somehow never explored that well. Today I did, and I was pretty happy with the results. I will have to go back to measure the Sugar Maples better. I managed to run out of time because I spent most of my time in other places of the park today. This particular area of woods had Eastern Cottonwood, Hackberry, Sugar Maple, Red Maple, Basswood, and Red Oak.

Eastern Cottonwood (The Wizard) Circumference: 262 inches Height: 108 ft Canopy: 108.5 ft
Eastern Cottonwood Circumference: 156 inches Height: 112 ft tall, Canopy: 98 ft
Hackberry: Circumference: 92 inches Height: 87 ft tall, Canopy: 53 ft
Hackberry: 91 inches Height: 90 ft Canopy: 52 ft
Sugar Maple: Height: 99 ft
Sugar Maple: 93 ft

As I said, I ran out of time today, but I think I measured the largest. There were at least a dozen Cottonwoods over 100 ft and I know there are at least a few Sugar Maples over 100 ft, but the largest I measured was just under. There was also a double trunked Hackberry in the 12 ft circumference range, which I did not measure because of the double trunk. The two Hackberry I did measure were growing about 40 ft apart and they were almost identical in size. Pictures below:
This is the biggest of the Cottonwoods (The Wizard). This picture doesn't do too much for perspective, but the tall tree right of the Cottonwood is a Sugar Maple that I did not get measured.
The first Hackberry
The second Hackberry

Again, sorry the pictures are so dark.
by Climbatree813
Sat May 03, 2014 10:56 pm
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Re: unknown tree in Egg Harbor City, NJ

Definitely hickory. You can see its flowers in the third photo.

by George Fieo
Thu May 22, 2014 9:20 pm
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Re: WNTS Old Growth Conference-Durango CO-2014

I should be there. I'm looking forward to it.
by John Harvey
Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:21 pm
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Re: Tallest Northern California Eucalyptus

This tallest known Eucalyptus of Europe in Portugal was lasermeasured as 72 m (236 ft) in November 2010 by Dean Nicolle, a Eucalyptus specialist from Australia.
See . So the height of 75 m (245 ft) reported in 2003 probably was not accurately measured.

This is still the tallest known tree in Europe, as Kouta has stated.

Jeroen Philippona
by Jeroen Philippona
Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:49 pm
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The Quetico

I just returned from a week long 85 mile canoe/fishing trip in the Quetico. The trip was amazing, but, being the tree crazed person I am (=)) I couldn't help but notice some trees along the way. I was unable to measure heights as I didn't feel right risking electronics on a trip where tree hunting was not my goal, but I did have a tape measure so I was able to measure for circumference. The Quetico is a wilderness area that tries to be as human hands off as possible. The campsites are very minimal, the portages are left to as little human intrusion as possible, and only fires that were started by humans and/or are threatening life and property will be fought. There was a significant chunk that was burned in 1995 and, as a result, there were only a few sections with monstrous trees, but I appreciated that which there was.

The tree species I did not get specific measurements on were White Spruce, Black Spruce, Jack Pine, Paper Birch, Balsam Fir, Red Maple, and Aspen. For white spruce I know I saw numerous specimens well over 120 ft tall, of course I have no measurements for them (as stated earlier) but they were exceptional. Same thing with the Black Spruce and Jack Pine. I saw a fair number of them over 100 feet but had nothing to measure them with. As for Balsam Fir or Red Maple I could not pick out any exceptionally large specimen, but I do not doubt I passed some. The Birch were not particularly impressive, though a few caught my eye, none were that enormous. The Aspen, however, were huge. I don't see Aspen as tall or as large back home as I did in the Quetico (not surprisingly). I didn't get any good, solid measurements for height, again as I said earlier.

Red Pine: Red Pine is one of my favorite trees to just stare at. I love their scaly red bark and their often massive crowns. The best red pine I measured on the trip were in a portage around Silver Falls off of Cache Bay. The area is primarily Red Pine and there are a few massive individuals. I could only measure what was near the path (too many packs to get very far off) but I did get some. The best I had was 11 ft 11 circumference on a tree with a pretty serious taper near the bottom. There was also a large, hollow red pine at about 11 ft around close by. Many of the individuals were near 100 ft tall but I could not get actual heights.

White Pine: The White Pine is one of those iconic trees of the Quetico/ Boundary Waters area. Their enormous crowns and soaring heights outdo all but the White Spruce for height and are unchallenged for girth in the North Woods. I know there are far larger individuals hidden deep in some of the forests, but I appreciated the large girth on some of the trees. One the most difficult portages for us was from from Cullen to Munro. Along that portage is a landmark white pine of 14ft 4 inches around. The tree is now even more of a landmark because of the fire of 1995. The fire tore through the area and killed many of the other trees around it but somehow the beast survived (with a serious fire scar I might add.) There is a patch of information on it in the Ranger Station on Saganaga Lake. The largest White Pine I was able to find for circumference was near Dead Man's portage across Saganagons Lake. It towers above its neighbors. I did go off the trail a ways for this tree, but it was worth it. I had it measured to 14 ft 11 circumference at 4.5 ft. Unfortunately I would estimate this tree has 1-2 years left to live, maybe a little more. The majority of the canopy is dead and the remaining vegetation is very sparse. It has dropped some sizable limbs lately and there is a giant weeping crack near the base running 10 ft up the tree. Who knows, it may stand for some time, but I don't think it will live too much longer. There were plenty of other remarkable pines, most of which were impressive for their crowns and heights (something I couldn't effectively measure) but a good many more were still in the 12-13 ft circumference range. I wish I could have measured every one, but that would have slowed an already busy trip immensely.

Eastern Larch, Tamarack: The size of the Tamaracks up there impressed me. Tamarack is by far one of my favorite species of tree (for many reasons.) The most impressive I saw on this trip were along the Wawiag River (same place as the largest Black Spruce.) There were three Tamarack along the route that really amazed me. All were in the 60-70 ft tall range from my estimations. The largest in circumference was 10 ft 2 in circumference at 4.5 ft. The Wawiag also provided another surprise. For about a 100 ft stretch the banks were dominated by Mountain Maple (in that area of Canada called the Moose Maple.) The size of some of the Maples were quite impressive. The largest were in the 30-40 ft tall range with the largest circumference being 4ft 4 in circumference. There may have been many more larger that that, but we were in a time crunch that day and bushwhacking through the bogs wasn't something my group would have given me too much time for.

Northern White Cedar: There were plenty of very large individuals on this trip. I wish I could have measured height because I walked past many an individual far taller than I have ever seen before. The largest circumference I had for a White Cedar was 9 ft 8 on the portage from Ross to Cullen.

I wish I had had time to do a more in depth search and really get some numbers, but as I said, it wasn't the main focus of our trip. I'll try to get some pictures up if I can.
by Climbatree813
Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:26 am
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Big trees from Mantua Conservation Area

A couple weeks ago I posted about this area and the 151' tulip I found. I was back in the area today and found a few exceptional trees. The largest tulip poplar was partially hollow and appeared to be much older than the forest. The second tulip poplar was very tall, 145', and of great volume. It kept its 16'+CBH for almost the first 100'. The American Beech was one of the largest single stem specimens I've ever seen. It also kept it girth straight up.

Tulip Poplar 18'8" x 127' x 85'

Tulip poplar 16'9" x 145' x 90'

Black Oak 14'1" x 115' x 80'

Ameri Beech 12'8" x 110' x 65'
by John Harvey
Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:52 pm
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Re: 20+ CBH Oaks in Southern New Jersey

Just an addition to an old post. Not a 20ft CBH oak but 18ft2in CBH. Worth the visit. 90ft high, 80ft spread. Vineland.
by John Harvey
Wed Mar 12, 2014 5:15 pm
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20+ CBH Oaks in Southern New Jersey

Here a few of the 20+ CBH Oaks Ive visited and some Ive discoverd in South Jersey.
by John Harvey
Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:06 am
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