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Allerton Park/Lodge Park (IL)


No measurements here, just some photos of the old growth forest at Allerton Park near Monticello, IL and a video of nearby Lodge Park (with me giving a review of my campsite.) All the photos in the post are from Allerton. The photos at the end of the video are from Lodge.









by Matt Markworth
Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:10 pm
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Re: Biltmore Estate Trees

I checked out the garden today to get accurate measurements on some over-measured trees, due to a clickover in my laser. I nailed these with two different lasers so I'm confident in these heights. The Rucker Index will suffer accordingly but I found a stellar pignut that will break into the top ten.

Bigleaf Magnolia is colonizing in at least four spots in the forest above the record holding 76.8' tree.

Interesting note about white ash. It seems to be much more prevalent on the Estate than Biltmore ash, yet Biltmore ash seems to be much more prevalent in the county. I assume the white ash was mostly planted as Biltmore is the dominant ash in the area.

Edit: I forgot to mention the sourwoods. These all grow on uplands and appear rather young.

White pine 155.6' from 158.1'

Dawn redwood 126.7' from 130.1'

Dawn redwood 124.7' from 126.4'

Oriental spruce 119.0' from 122.3'

Norway spruce 130.0' from 133.6'

and on to increases in height

Atlas cedar 102.0' from 97.4'

Mockernut hickory 122.1' from 119.6' current record holder for girth @ 142"

new finds

sourwood 76.3' 78.8' 80.9' 81.8' 88.8' 3 now over 85' on the Estate

white oak 115.8' 116.4'

black oak 108.4' 116.6' new record for the estate

chestnut oak 105.7' 108.2'

scarlet oak 114.0'

white ash 115.3'

walnut 102.5' 117.5'

Pignut hickory 130.7' tallest hickory on the Estate

Oriental spruce 100.4'

Longleaf pine 73.4' 81.8'

Euro silver fir 80.2'

Pacific silver fir 74.5' 96.0'

Japanese Katsura 65.9'

Ginkgo biloba 75.3'

Conifer R10 130.25'

Pinus strobus 155.6'
Tsuga canadensis 144.2'
Larix decidua 136.9'
Taxodium distichum 135.0'
Picea abies 130.0'
Metasequoia glypto 126.7'
Pinus echinata 120.0' needs more careful measurement
Picea orientalis 119.0'
Pinus resinosa 118.4'
Abies homolepis 116.7'

Rucker overall

Pinus strobus 155.6'
Tsuga canadensis 144.2'
Liriodendron tulipifera 143.4'
Larix decidua 136.9'
Taxodium distichum 135.0'
Platinus occidentalis 131.5'
Quercus rubra 130.8'
Carya glabra 130.7'
Picea abies 130.0'
Fraxinus americana 128.7'

Tilia tomentosa 127.9'
Metasequoia glypto 126.7'
Juglans nigra 124.7'
Ulmus laevis 124.0'
Carya alba 122.1'
Tilia americana 120.0'
Pinus echinata 120.0'
Picea orientalis 119.0'
Quercus alba 118.5'
Pinus resinosa 118.4'


R20= 129.41'
by bbeduhn
Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:44 pm
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Cambridge Pines!

A little bit confusing to find but very nice! What beautiful place. Old-growth forest. Pics from 10/4/12:
by greenent22
Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:40 am
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Re: Tree Maximums - Genus of the Week: Abies (fir)


I agree, those aren't the biggest balsam firs you've seen... because they're not balsam fir. The trees do bear some general resemblance to balsam fir in their pyramidal form and needles arising individually from the twigs, but if you take a closer look you'll see some subtler differences. The needles on your trees are pointed rather than rounded at the ends, the needles don't have a pair of white lines (stomatal bands) on the underside, and the limbs turn up at the tips rather than lying in a flattened plain. Cones would be an obvious difference, but it looks like you didn't have any to work with. Your trees are spruce, probably Norway spruce.

by Jess Riddle
Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:16 pm
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Re: A Little Urban Forestry

Sugar Maple has been one of my favorite northern trees since I first saw them Wisconsin back in 2000. I have measured several the largest had a height of 72' and CBH of 84". In the city of Superior and Duluth there are many large Sugars. I should take the time to measure some of them I believe some are as large as yours. The Maples on your listing are much larger than any I've measured and much older. I'm guessing them to be in the 100-150 year old range. What were the heights of your Maples? These trees were most likely left when the great logging occurred in the mid to late 1800's. What a beautiful species especially in the fall! The large Bur Oak is really nice also. I measured the Missouri Champion back in 2009 what a monster. Height- 132.3, CBH- 18'2", Spread- 78' x 98.5'. It had been measured by other NTS members in the past but I still wanted to do it. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:19 am
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Re: 261' sugar pine, second tallest, killed by RIM fire

Wow, to bad about the loss of such a tree. I know how you must feel. When I lose a big Live Oak that I measured and enjoyed so much part of me is lost to! I'm sure we all have felt this way at one time or another at the loss of a special Forest, place or tree we bonded close to. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:45 am
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Re: The Protect Hermosa Tree

Thanks Don!

Here's a short video of the tree:

by Matt Markworth
Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:56 pm
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Re: giant forest grown trees logged by neighbor


Thanks for responding. I respect that you value this patch of forest you've adopted as your own, but the reality is that the land didn't belong to you, and the new owner had different priorities for it than you wanted. Seeing the land cleared is surely a sad thing for you and your friends and neighbors, but someone else is, at the same time, celebrating a new home place.

Yeah celebrating a new home place, but not even waiting 10 seconds before totally changing the entire landscape and everything as everyone had known it for half a century. By leveling into forest that started growing the same time Abraham Lincoln did. Why the heck if you are afraid of trees and oooo a caterpillar fell on me and want a clear, barren, wide open lawn do you move into a heavily wooded property (paying OVER market, some other couple wanted the property and I heard them say they loved the amazing trees, and these fools go into a bidding war and outbid them for a property of a type they apparently don't even like!!), why move into one of the most unique properties only to destroy it and to not allow anyone who would enjoy such a rare property the chance to move into such a place, of which there are barely any, and turn it into a property that is a dime a dozen??

Off the top of your head how many properties do you know of that have the backyard 180 degrees wrapped around in tight with 180+ year old forest patch that is further surrounded by hundreds of acres of more woods? And how many when it's a mixed Northern Hardwood/semi-Cove type forest? It's criminal to ruin such an incredibly, ultra rare property type and turn it into a Levitown property of which there is a nearly infinite supply.

And people had careful shade gardens and plantings. It's just been a week and suddenly, our hemlock tree which is now getting a ton more direct sun has the branches turning yellow and we don't know what's going on and the shade garden is all wilting.

If they wanted to celebrate a barren clear cut they had a million properties in this area with the same house for same or less cost they couldn've moved into and celebrated without having to cut a thing.

Have you talked to your new neighbors? Were they aware of the uniqueness of their property? I realize that it's too late to save the trees, but maybe in time you can persuade them to adopt your way of thinking. Maybe I'm being naive here, but I find a lot of problems can be solved meeting people face to face.


I wish we had gotten to. I almost went over and talked up the wonder of their amazing property one day, but I went in to the bathroom and grabbed a drink and they were gone from the near backyard and that was that. The next time they were seen the trees were falling.

Even then I wish I had rung their doorbell, they could see that we were getting upset and the tree removal people knew it, but maybe if I had run over and rang the bell and begged and pleaded quickly and offered a couple thousand or so for conservation easement on the trees or something, I don't know, maybe I could've at least had time and gotten them to agree to at least save a handful of the boundary trees, but everything was moving so fast and it was so loud and everyone was numb in shock. I too do have some faith in calmly meeting with people and telling marvelous tales and trying to work with them. I wish I had the chance. Even at the last second, I'm kicking myself for not trying a desperate last try, unfortunateley I also got some bad advice where another neighbor said better to just stand back, there is no way you can change anyone's mind and it'll just turn into a mess, I wish I had not listened and given it a desperation try. Maybe the boundary trees could've been saved. If they got scared by misleading hurricane tales and were falsely blaming some trees for the grass being in a horrible state, maybe some proper info could have persuaded them (heck just pointing to the sky and showing where the sun shines and where shadows get cast would make it clear). Their grass was a disaster because of the crazy things the cheap lawn care crew of the prior owner did. The original owner had even more trees and yet deep lush grass. I don't know, they didn't seem to pay much mind to everyone tearing up and looking on in distress and since it's so much effort to cut it all down, maybe a couple thousand wouldn't have persuaded them, but I don't know. I mean it was confusing since after they had cut the interior trees it seemed like they were done with back and all the back boundary trees were going to be fine and we thought they were just going to cut the front trees at that point. Then all of a sudden we hear a saw and giant crash and they already lopped off half of a giant boundary tree and that cracked another. There were still a couple more to save, but we were just stunned and horrified and frozen in shock. After the initial cutting stopped, the tree cutter said boy you guys look sad and upset and then told a neighbor that there had 8 more to cut, but they seemed to indicate towards the front and other side where there were young trees. But once that info had been relayed that that many more trees were to be cut I wish I had dashed over and tried to get the details straight and talked things out, maybe to no avail, but maybe, maybe.... but it was such a whirlwind and everyone was suggesting different things and many were saying it was hopeless, etc.

I mean, yeah, well maybe if they had bothered to meet their neighbors first maybe they could have been educated about the uniqueness of it, even been paid to save the boundary giants at least, but they just boom, moved in and wiped 'em flat, they and their stupid tree removal friends didn't even get the prevalent wind directions correct, aside from the freak hurricane Sandy, which was said to have been the first storm to blow strong winds in that direction in here in probably a good 800 years, no trees here have ever blown down in that direction. Not a single tree has blown down in a direction that would've blown a single one of the trees they cut, aside from one, toward their house or deck, in the last 60 years at a minimum and perhaps for far, far longer. And then the tree guy is like oh they have a young kid and they need a huge backyard lawn to play. 1. the giant boundary trees would have prevented that?? 2. a little kid needs like a football field of open grass or he can't play? The prior two property owners had kids and they played in the backyard (and I with them). And the boundary trees would not have prevented them from expanding the lawn a lot.

The ironic thing is a couple houses up there is a property that had a big largely wide open backyard lawn and I remember they'd always laugh about how they bought it thinking their kids and all the other kids would love it and everyone would play on it, but guess what, nobody ever did, twice ever!!, because it was boring! Kids like trees to climb, hide behind, build tree forts in, dirt to dig, etc. The property that just got massacred actually had kids playing in it 10000x more than the "lawn for kids". I mean who knows, maybe this kid and these ones will like the wide open barren grass, but the last two gens of kids here didn't.

And again, if they are afraid of trees, want barren hot sun and not a single living thing but grass, why outbid a couple who loved the property as it was a destroy something that people had been living with as it was for 45 years, when you had so many properties available as you liked it with out needing to destroy the one unique one?

From what I can see, out of 200 properties on this super long forest road, over the last 65+ years they are only the second people to ever annihilate a property to the boundaries like this and the only other ones who have done this, had vastly younger and smaller trees on the woods in their yard and they did it a couple years after moving in and working with their next door neighbor.

And yeah still legal to cut it, but it was in zone designated for forest preservation and while not illegal on a single family home lot this small it was strongly discouraged.

But I see it more and more around the region, city types without a natural loving bone in their body are just moving in and chopping the crap out of this and that, ancient hedge of twisted lilacs, who needs, that cut em flat, cut the property bare to ground, in another part of town have some 150-200 year old towering trees down your backyard slope above the lake, just move in and chop em all down so you can stare at the parking lot on the other side of the lake and so your whole backyard and can erode into the lake and make it turn into a green algae mess right near the main swimming beach.
by greenent22
Sun Aug 31, 2014 5:25 pm
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Science, Passion, and Getting Personal

Science, Passion, and Getting Personal

Why do scientists pursue science with so much vigor and enthusiasm? It is because of the passion we have for our subjects. Even what would appear to be the most boring subject of a lecture can be invigorated when the speaker is passionate about his subject. When the listener sees the speakers eyes light up with that passion, it enables the listener to share in that experience with the speaker. I have watched the Charlie Rose Show and listened to his guests and have been enthralled by some of the guests speaking on the most mundane subjects because of their passion for their subjects.

I think research scientists and artists share much in common. Both groups delight in the product of their efforts without concern for how practical it might be. In one the search is often for knowledge for its own sake, the simple delight in “knowing.” There is the story of Harlow Shapely who in the early 1900’s figured out the size of the Milky Way and discovered that the sun was located in a non-descript corner of the galaxy. It was late at night when he finished his calculations. He sought out the only other person in the building, a cleaning lady, and explained his discovery to her, saying they were the only two people on Earth that understood it. It is this excitement about pure knowledge, even if there is not an immediate practical application that drives scientists, like the creation of art that drives artists.

As a scientist we are told to remain dispassionate about our subjects so as to not introduce bias into our results. We are not assembly workers on a production line. There is no science without passion. What we can do is to use protocols to limit bias in our analysis, but I don’t think there can be science without passion. The passion is to find what is true rather than to find a desired answer.

Robert Leverett wrote (2004) about the Eastern Native Tree Society in an essay called “Looking Back”:
What keeps ENTS from being exclusively research-oriented is the value judgments we make. We get up close and personal with the trees and forest sites. In doing this, we may appear to violate the impersonal requirement of objective science. But we can keep different objectives separated in our approaches. We just want the range of future researchers to be able to go beyond an either or dichotomy: superficial public site descriptions at the one extreme and heavy scientific data at the other. We want future generations to know not only about the ecology of Cook Forest State Park's Forest Cathedral, but also about the Longfellow pine and Seneca pines. We want people to know which trees were climbed, when, and the results. Individuals matter to us, and if they don't to others, they should.

This comment came back to me as I was looking on the web for material about Jane Goodall, the famous primate specialist who did groundbreaking work with chimpanzees. She is giving a talk at a university here in Pennsylvania in a couple weeks and I am planning to attend. I came across this video interview, it lasts only a couple of minutes that discussed criticisms she received when she named her chimpanzee subjects and interacted with them. It talks about passion, and getting personal, and where she thinks science has gone wrong.

She says in the video:

"I was told you have to give them numbers because you have to be objective as a scientist," Goodall says in the video, "and you mustn't empathize with your subject. And I feel this is where science has gone wrong. To have this coldness, this lack of empathy, has enabled some scientists to do unethical behavior."
She says empathy can bring a better understanding of animal -- and human -- behavior, adding, "I think only when our clever brain and our human heart work together in harmony can we achieve our full potential."

I am saying that as individuals, whether you are a scientist or simply an enthusiast, go forth and be passionate about your subject. Allow yourself to become personal about individuals. Allow yourself to feel and explore the range of logic and emotion inherent in your subject and work. Allow yourself the joy of discovery and simply knowing. Dispassionate comes into play when you are analyzing your data, when you are analyzing your sampling protocols, when you are forming your conclusions. And even though they might be redlined in a professional publication, include in your analysis non-quantifiable observations that help in the understanding of the subjects and processes you are observing.

Edward Forrest Frank
by edfrank
Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:06 pm
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Finally a 150' + tree for NJ, field report.

So today I found the first documented 150'+ tree, tulip poplar, in NJ. It's located in Mantua Nature Preserve in South Jersey. I've been exploring the area for a week now and figured I'd post a full report with photos. Here goes...

Ta Prohm of South Jersey

This forest has a unique substance to it. One of the most striking features are the random ruins here. image.jpg image.jpg the second thing that jumps out is the height of the canopy, and the size of the trees, at least to someone from New Jersey anyway. The tulip trees here are very mature, thick, and tall. The average height is well over 130' and many examples of 140'+ exist here. The variety of species is immense. I encountered Red Maple, Tulip Poplar, Eastern White Pine, White Oak, Chestnut Oak, American Beech, Black Oak, Eastern Hemlock, American Holly, and many more. One white pine was quite impressive. 10ft CBH and 130ft tall. image.jpg

Your not from around here are you?

The only negative about this forest is the invasive species. There are Norway Maple EVERYWHERE! They are the understory, period. I've never encountered anything like this in any forest I've been in. There are saplings and near mature trees. They made it extremely difficult to get height measurements on the tallest tulip poplars. Almost all the tulips are mature and hardly any saplings exist, driven out by the Norway. There are also a few Norway Spruce ironically. Large ones.

The towering tulips

It's not uncommon for the tulips here to be 13ft+ in circumference. This site seems perfect for them. I can't say I encountered one that wasn't at least 120' tall as well. Frustration mounted as I encountered several 140'+ trees trying to break the 150' mark. I had only found 4 trees over 140' in all of south Jersey before this. Finally, on my way out of the forest, on the top of a lake bank, I found it. 12'10" CBH, 151'6" tall. The Norway maple were horrible here and this was the best measurement I could get in this season. The tree may be taller but I doubt by much. image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

For the next few weeks I'll be focusing on the area around the park through Google Earth and on foot, seeing if I can top this tree. Below are a few more photos of the area. Now time to find a 160' example here.
by John Harvey
Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:49 pm
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Re: The University of Wisconsin - Stevens Point

If I recall correctly, Jack Pine is a good example of one of those species that thrives in the North but really doesn't make it down as far as the Smokey's. Wisconsin is about the south end of its range (I have some very nice specimen to measure here if I get the chance.) Eastern Larch doesn't really dip down into the Smokies (that I know of, but I could be wrong.) Then a lot of the dogwoods and willows that we have don't grow in the Smokies. There is a lot to measure. Minnesota/Wisconsin/Michigan/Northern New York are unique because the Great Lakes harbors a number of Northern Conifer/ Northern Deciduous species that exist with a large range in Canada that barely dip down into the states. Species such as Jack Pine, White Spruce and Black Spruce (though they can exist in other parts of the North East as well and other places), Heartleaf Birch can extend over to Superior (though its range can be debated), Red Pine is a northern species. All those species are great, but there are already decent numbers on most (though I believe the Spruces and Jack Pine can be upped substantially.) The truly interesting ones that need measuring the most are the ones that really only exist in the lake states. I assume that would be one of the rarer willow or maybe a hawthorn species that's tough to find or identify. Canadian Plum is another one that I have been trying to find forever but can't find for the life of me. I'll look through his list again later when I get the chance and try to see if any exist in Wisconsin that I can keep an eye out for. Any others you specifically have in mind?

Here's a good resource that has been very helpful to me:

by Matt Markworth
Wed Sep 17, 2014 5:45 pm
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Re: Hunting for Big Racks

I've cut and pasted a snippet from Rick Bass's "The Wild Marsh" where he, at least in my mind, waxes lyrical on larches, and I thought that you guys might enjoy the prose appreciation Bass offers the larches, especially this time of year!~
While larches may not be familiar to most Westerners or Easterners per se, to Northwesterners and Northeasterners they may. It stands out on paper (only deciduous conifer) and in the woods (as a conifer losing yellow needles in the fall). A hint of seasonal change could happen soon.
By mid-September, larches in Yaak Valley, Montana can be expected to start their change in color, per Bass on page 272:

"The larch are starting to glow at their tips- the needles on the uppermost branches turn yellow first, with the wave of gold progressing steadily downward through each tree, each forest, then, as autumn progresses, an amazing thing to witness in any one tree, the color gold washing through the entire tree, guilding it, much less to witness that slow, beautiful fire happening to an entire mounainside"
By mid-October, larch needles are still intact. Per the October chapter, page 287,
"The larch and aspen and cottonwood hang golden for as long as they can, as do the drying brown leaves of the alder and blood red leaves of the red-osier dogwood. They're able to hold steady, even in their won dying, though as the winds of autumn increase, more and more of them swirl through the woods, in patters like smoke, gold whirling spirals and dervishes that for a moment or two seem to take on the shape of a man, or a deer, before the leaves settle down randomly into the autumn-dead grass, like gold coins spilled from someone's pocket."
The aspen and cottonwoods are first to 'spill their coins', but on page 288:
"The larch hold their needles longer, holding them all the way to the bitter end of autumn. The broadleaves of the other deciduous trees flap and twist and rattle in the wind and are wrested free, day after day, but the larch needles hang in there, until their cool gold wave is all the color-besides the blue-green of the spruce, fir, pine, and cedar-that is left.
The larch have been gold now for so long that you have almost become accustomed to the beauty, have almost come to believe it is your unending due. A few trickle off, steadily, through out the Fall, bur for the most part they hold on, these strange, reluctant, dinosaurs, with one foot in the prehistoric past of the ancient conifers and another tentative foot in the relatively modern, sunnier and somewhat daring camp of the deciduous trees.
When they do let go-usually in late October- it is one of the great sights, of this landscape.
It will have been increasingly windy, all through October, but finally the wind is too much- or rather, just enough. Sometimes, at night you will hear it when it comes roaring through, and the sound and excitement of it will lift you from your bed, just as the needles are being lifted from their branches.
The big wind often brings rain just behind it as well, which helps peel the needles from the trees; but some years the wind is dry, though no matter: still the air is filled, suddenly and finally, with what must be literally tons of flying gold needles, gold needles like darts or tiny arrows; and if you go out on the porch at night, you will be able to feel the needles striking you but will not be able to see them in the darkness. They will land in your hair, though, will coat your arms and feet, and in the morning, when you rise and look outside, the world has been transformed, sculpted in gold, with every sleeping, inanimate shape pasted with gold needles, and all roads and trails pave with gold".
by Don
Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:02 pm
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Re: 35,500 Cubic Feet Volume

Chris Atkins and Ron Hildebrandt took a stab at volume measure for the tree we found in Redwood National and State Parks. Ron is likely still crunching numbers. Atkins, via the Atkins system, reported an estimate of about 35,500 cubic feet .

If that number holds, it could be the 5th or 5th largest Coast Redwood. The tape wrapped 12 feet above average grade, was 20.7 ft. diameter at that point.
by mdvaden
Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:25 pm
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Re: Birch Mania


Here are more black birch images taken by Ray on Mount Tom to emphasize the species forms, age, and size.




by dbhguru
Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:48 pm
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Re: historic photo of virgin white pines

This whole discussion reminds me of the 400ft Douglass fir or Eucalyptus theory. There are a lot of accounts but not a lot of hard data although I'm sure either tree could reach 400ft before an eastern white pine could reach 250. As for Paul Bunyan and Babe? They exist, seen them with my on two eyes!
by John Harvey
Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:14 pm
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Black Spruce Champ Superior Forest Wisconsin

NTS- I went back to Superior Forest to re-measure the Black Spruce that I had measured last year. I didn't measure the crown spread and after checking the Champion tree listings it would be the new Wisconsin champ, it would also beat the National champion in N.H. This is the post from last year- The weather was much colder this time and the road into the area was frozen over. Not having a 4 wheel drive truck I had to park across the Highway and walk in. Pokegamon River.jpg I knew about where the tree was located so I walked beside and on the edge of the somewhat frozen River. Luckily I only had to walk about 400 yards before I located the Champ. Black Spruce 2.jpg It grows along a small drainage that flows into the River. There was a few more Spruce in the area that reached 95' or so but this one was the tallest. I wanted to explore much more of the Forest but the weather was not cooperating more snow and much colder temps were on the way. The next morning it was 5 below with 6" of Snow and the following morning was 11 below to cold for me! I will just have to come back next year in say October and explore this area for large Cedar and White Pine. Black Spruce 3.jpg Black Spruce 4.jpg The Spruce measured CBH- 72", Height 101' and Crown Spread 24' x 19' total points- 183 besting the Champ by 10. Black Spruce 1.jpg I was standing on the River in a couple of these photos rare for me. Beaver House.jpg I came across some Beaver sign and located their Den up River from the Spruce. Cedar and Aspen.jpg Spruce and White Pine.jpg I took a couple of photos of a Northern Cedar, Big Tooth Aspen, Black Spruce and White Pine for comparison. Wolf Track.jpg A photo of a large Wolf Track and it was fresh from the night before I think. Black Spruce 5.jpg One last shot of the Black Spuce from up River a few. Measured with Trupulse 360 I have GPS coordinates and elevation was 656'. I'm passing the GPS cooridinates and measurements to Mary Morgan the Director of Superior Forest she was very excited to learn of a Champion tree. Larry
by Larry Tucei
Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:57 am
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Had an opportunity to remeasure the national champion Tamarack Larix laricina . I first visited this tree in 2011. Some colleagues and myself were teaching a tree climbing class at the community college in Brainerd. Did some digging, fond some contact info, and we got permission to see the tree. It is on private property.

[img] tamarack%20champ%20(5).JPG [/img]

Height: 67
Spread: 67 (LRF)

This Tamarack did not grow with the typical pyramidal form you would expect.

[img] tamarack%20champ%20(2).JPG [/img]

The tree is in a wet and mucky "Tamarack swamp" luckily it is only 300 yards to the site. The Tamarack has seemed to create its own island.

[img] tamarack%20champ,%20mr%20pierson.JPG [/img]

This last October I was able to visit the tree again. Impressive as the last time I visited. The tree has put on a little growth and looks good. The homeowner was worried about a broken top from a winter storm. But the broken section was not the main trunk and was small in comparison to the point of attachment. We assured them it was nothing to worry about.

[img] DSCN4164.JPG [/img]

CBH: 12.25'
Height: 70.8
Spread: 63.5 (tape)

The homeowner is open to letting people visit the tree, if you ever have the inkling.

[img] DSCN4161.JPG [/img]

[img] tamarack%20champ%20(4).JPG [/img]

by pierce
Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:40 pm
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Falls creek Scientific and Natural Area


Visited a nice site along the St Croix River a little over a year ago. I did some solo measuring in Falls Creek SNA on Nov. 2, 2013. I first visited falls creek in 2001, as a recreational tree climber trying to find a spot hang out. I noticed the small parking lot off the highway and the tall pines in the ravine. Well, I did a preliminary visit and decided I needed to visit again. I have been here many times, but not to measure trees. Until 2013. I knew this was a good site with lots of potential, but what I found was more than I expected.

I hit the road early and got to falls creek before sun rise.


I decided to enter on the west side of the area, an area I had not explored yet. Anxious to get started I measured the first white pine I saw over 15". Just needed a warm up. This first tree was a 7.22' CBH and 86.1' tall. No Photos.

Then I walked into a great area with nice trees. The next tree I measured was a 9.23' CBH 120.6' Tall.


As I looked around I noticed that the area I came into was a white pine stand with a contiguous canopy. I did not have GPS so I cannot pinpoint this area, but to the best of my abilities using Google Earth and TreePlotter Lite I figure it is about a 1.5-2 acre canopy area. Most of the White pine in Falls Creek are in a mixed forest setting.


Measured a few trees in addition to the 120.6 footer

White Pine 3
CBH: 6.98'
Height: 106.2'

White Pine 4
CBH: 7.22'
Height: 102.6

White Pine 5
CBH: 7.81'
Height: 111.6'


Moving on I encountered a tree that did not say much at first glance. But, something made me stop and look at it. The tree was in the lower portion of the ravine but was the only tree top that was receiving sun light.

White Pine 6
CBH: 6.53'
Height: 126.9



Following the creek I saw some nice White Pine regenration and some good diversity in species. Yellow Birch, Sugar Maple, Basswood, and Blue Beech were all present.


A large trunk caught my eye and gave me a height I did not expect. I was hoping for 110'.

White Pine 7
CBH: 8.7'
Height: 123.6


My old friend, The tree we used to climb when we discovered this place. Looks good as always. a not huge tree, but a nice solid tree.

White Pine 8
CBH: 8.47'
Height: 113.1'


Getting to the eastern boundary, we run into two fun features. One, is an overhang on the creek and the other is a well with a concrete catch.

Falls Creek is not only special for its trees, it also has special geologic formations and is a known site for certain threatened song birds during migration.



After reaching the eastern boundary I decided to head back on the north ravine (from the well) the ravine was steep and I did not see much out of the ordinary. I walked a deer trail right next to a tree that looked nice. But I choose to not measure it and keep moving. As I moved up the ravine I looked back at the tree I skipped. Oh Darn... Should have got the CBH on that one. When I looked back, this tree was the only one with sun on the upper most portion. And it is more than half way down the ravine. Well, get the height.

White Pine 9
CBH: -
Height: 129.6'

Pushing 130, and the tree is still holding apical dominance. In my opinion this tree has a long way to grow. As do many of the trees in Falls Creek SNA



by pierce
Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:33 am
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Quercus jackfrostii

Quercus jackfrostii?

The photo pretty much sums it up...

Quercus jackfrostii.JPG

by Matt Markworth
Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:23 pm
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Re: Redwood Stumps

Man I totally forgot about Gods Valley Spruce. What a beast! That would bump off a few trees from my list.

I was really only thinking about known trees but yes I'm sure the unknown and undocumented were even greater. I'm sure at some point hundreds or even thousands of years ago there were a few beast most of us wouldn't even believe in unless we were a 4slow taper 40ft cbh tulip tree or a 415ft euc, doug fir, or redwood. Who knows what could have been...stuff of legends.
by John Harvey
Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:51 am
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Chief Logan & the Logan Elm

This is kind of standard fair for primary schooling in Ohio, but might be interesting for everyone else:

Logan Elm State Memorial along Highway 23 in central Ohio, is said to be the site where, in 1774, Chief Logan of the Mingo tribe delivered his eloquent speech on Indian-white relations. The speech was supposedly delivered under a large elm tree. Considered to be one of the largest elms in the U. S., the tree stood 65 feet tall, with a trunk circumference of 24 feet and foliage spread of 180 feet. It died in 1964 from damage by blight and storms.
Logan, born along the Susquehanna River in Pennsylvania, was the son of an Indian chief, and also a Christian. He had moved from Pennsylvania to Ohio and had taken up his home with a small tribe of Mingoes, near Steubenville. They soon made him their chief.

One day a party of Indians was camping at the mouth of Yellow Creek. Some white men were camping on the other side of the Ohio River. The Indians, consisting of five men, a woman and a babe, crossed over to the white camp. The whites gave them rum and when they had made them drunk, they killed them. The Indians on the other side of the stream, hearing the shooting, started over to see what was the matter. These were also shot. Among the killed were Logan's relatives: his father, brother, and sister.

Logan at once turned into a savage avenger. Blood was now to be shed for blood. He went on the war path and during the summer he himself took thirty scalps. The Indians in Ohio followed his example and soon no white man was safe. The Shawnees living on the Scioto, near Circleville, were the leaders in the uprising under their great chief, Cornstalk. Logan thought a man by the name of Cresap had killed his family, and once he wrote him a letter in which he said: "What did you kill my people on Yellow Creek for? I thought I must kill, too, and I have been three times to war since. But the Indians are not angry. Only myself. Captain John Logan."

The war did not last very long, for the white people in Virginia raised two armies to go against the Indians. A terrible battle was fought where Point Pleasant, on the Ohio River, now stands, October, 1774, and the red men were thoroughly defeated, and hastened back to their homes on the Scioto to sue for peace.

When Logan was found later under the elm tree, in broken English he burst out in one of the most beautiful speeches ever uttered:

"I appeal to any white man to say if ever he entered Logan's cabin hungry and he gave him not meat; if ever he came cold and naked and he clothed him not. During the course of the last long and bloody war, Logan remained idle in his cabin, an advocate of peace. Such was my love for the whites that my countrymen pointed at me as they passed and said, "Logan is the friend of white men." I had even thought to have lived with you, but for the injuries of one man, who the last spring in cold blood and unprovoked, murdered all the relatives of Logan, not even sparing my women and children. There runs not a drop of my blood in the veins of any living creature. This called on me for revenge. I have sought it, I have killed many. I have fully glutted my vengeance. For my country I rejoice at the beams of peace. But do not harbor a thought that mine is the joy of fear. Logan never felt fear. He will not turn on his heel to save his life. Who is there to mourn for Logan? Not one."

The remainder of the life of Logan was sad. His friends were all dead. His tribe was broken up. His hunting ground had gone to make corn fields for the white man. He wandered about from tribe to tribe, dejected and broken-hearted, a solitary and lonely man. He took to drink and partially lost his mind.

In the dusk of the evening he sat before his camp fire, at the foot of a tree, with a blanket over his head, his elbows resting on his knees, and his head resting on his hands, thinking, no doubt, of his checkered life. An Indian who had been offended at something Logan had said at a council stole up behind him and sank a tomahawk into his brain.

A number of pictures liberally schlepped from Google image search:



by Rand
Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:28 pm
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